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A&P looking for flight training advice?

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A&P looking for flight training advice?

Old 08-04-2009, 06:42 PM
  #1  
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Default A&P looking for flight training advice?

Hello all,

I firstly apologize if a similar posting has already been made, but I had no luck finding anything through the search engine....

I'm 22 yrs old (feel a bit old to start flying now already!), will finishing up 1 more year at University of North Dakota with an "Aviation Systems Management" degree (whatever that means). I only picked that major because it is the only one UND grants 40 credits for having an A&P, and some day I would be interesting in advancing my maintenance career as an AME under EASA and getting picked up by a foreign carrier-(having a management degree is a big plus so I hear)

In the mean time, I will graduate UND with required to take course AVIT101 or 102 (102 you get PPL). Now that I have been attending the school for a year, I am not particularily fond of the way their flight training is operated.
Also, even if I did wish to get all the ratings-Instrument,Commercial, Multi, CFI completed at UND, I would have to dink around and pay for tuition and spend unecessary time going through all their time consuming flight classes and labs. I wouldn't mind it so much if there were good enough jobs to support that sort of lifestyle in ND for a couple years, but my old employer (hires me just for the school breaks now at KEWR-nearby my hometown, where I have gotten great experience on many heavy and small aircraft types, make good contacts,and decent $ +full health insurance) has, and will have a spot for me to return to. I have been there for a little over a year now.


SURVEY OF FLIGHT

AVIT 101
$ 4,124

Instructor Time
45 hrs


S. E. Simulator
10.4 hrs


Warrior
12.5 hrs



PRIVATE PILOT

AVIT 102 Intro to Aviation
$ 9,253

Instructor Time
79 hrs


S. E. Simulator
3 hrs


Warrior
48 hrs

FAA Written

-*Basically I am forced to pick one of these to fufill graduation requirements....Is it even worth paying that much for PPL, or just take 101 and finish elsewhere?

Also,
My major question to you all is, should I stay in UND and start the commercial aviation major to get all the desired ratings? Or some place closer to home where I can keep my job (NYC area), or anyone know places that allow A&Ps to work for flight time? Or even cost and time effective flight schools/FBOs to recommend? I am willing to move anywhere if necessary if the price, quality of training, and time of completion is right.

These are the current rates of UNDs courses for ratings- Keep in mind each one takes a full school semester to complete

Also keep in mind, I am not necessarily looking to fill a commuter or commercial job upon completion...I would be satisfied flying freight kingairs or barons in Alaska or any other obscure places where low time pilots are able to find jobs (preferrably where I can utilze A&P)

COMMERCIAL, INSTRUMENT, AND MULTI-ENGINE

AVIT 221 Basic Attitude Instrument Flying
$ 6,827

Instructor Time
48 hrs


S. E. Simulator
13.5 hrs


Warrior
34.5 hrs


AVIT 222 IFR Regulations & Procedures
$ 7,734

Instructor Time
65 hrs


S. E. Simulator
8.5 hrs


C172
34 hrs

FAA WrittenAVIT 323 Aerodynamics - Airplanes
$ 6,391

Instructor Time
42 hrs


C172
5 hrs


Arrow
27.5 hrs

FAA WrittenAVIT 325 Multi-Engine Systems & Procedures
$ 11,728

Instructor Time
69.5 hrs


M.E. Simulator
20 hrs


Seminole
28 hrs



FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR

AVIT 414 CFI Certification
$ 7,300

Instructor Time
65 hrs


Decathlon
1.5 hrs


C172
14.5 hrs


Arrow
16 hrs

FAA WrittenAVIT 415 Instrument Flight Instructor (CFII)
$ 5,273

Instructor Time
50 hrs


S.E. Simulator
5.0 hrs


C172
21 hrs

FAA Written
http://www.studentservices.aero.und....s/Default.aspx

Sorry if I over did it, but any advice from anyone in the field out there would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks all so much for your time and input in advance!
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:24 AM
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"My major question to you all is, should I stay in UND and start the commercial aviation major to get all the desired ratings? Or some place closer to home where I can keep my job (NYC area), or anyone know places that allow A&Ps to work for flight time? Or even cost and time effective flight schools/FBOs to recommend?"

If you NEED to take one of the classes to graduate, you should take the flying one. That price is pretty reasonable, even though I don't know how that can say it is $9,253. Usually the prices vary by each student because some learn slower and need more flight time to reach the standards.

Once you graduate, come home to your job complete with a ppl and earn your ratings locally. There is probably no place that advertises "if you are an a&p youy can work here and we will pay you with flight time" but if you ask around I bet you could get some postive results
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TheReelDeel33 View Post
There is probably no place that advertises "if you are an a&p youy can work here and we will pay you with flight time" but if you ask around I bet you could get some postive results
American Flyers used to have a formal program where you did just that...worked as an A&P for two years and they provided all of your flight training (post-private).
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:00 AM
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Thank you both so much for your input.
I will try asking around locally to see what comes up. I also called American flyers for the heck of it and found out good stuff.Pretty much have to be their slave for 16 weeks straight for how ever long the days require, but they offer a respectable deal and will train up to CFI.

Anyone know of any other bigger named training schools that offer a similar package?

Thanks and good luck to all
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:31 AM
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*16 months!!

Does anyone know anything about the repuation of American Flyers or similar outfits?
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by kingair130 View Post
*16 months!!

Does anyone know anything about the repuation of American Flyers or similar outfits?
They have many branch offices. The headquarters folks (Illinois and DFW) were fairly typical flight school scumbags IMO, they routinely overstated their flying qualifications. Low-time private pilots would claim thousands of hours of "instructor time"...but that was not flight instruction.

Some of the branch offices might be OK, depending on the local manager. But beware of the salesmen...even the branches employ professional salesmen with little to no aviation credentials.

AF targets wealthy student and private pilots. Most training programs are way overpriced, but the CFI academy is usually a good deal. Of course this would not matter to an intern.
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Old 08-10-2009, 09:38 AM
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thanks for the follow up Rick, much appreciated. I did some searching around to find out about the school and the most consistant complaint I found was regarding their lack, or minimal amount of multi time at many of their locations....

I'm sure glad I have a year to figure this stuff out (wouldn't do it until next May after I graduate college)....gives me a headache just thinking about it all.

I know it's hard to put a pricetag on the "average" expense of flight training because of so many factors andvariations... but it would be nice if I could put the value of training in numbers, plus the $1800 stipend over the course of the 16 months and see if its worthwhile.

If something's too good to be true, it probably isn't!
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:39 PM
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..........
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:55 PM
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I used to instruct at the AF SMO location. AF is an overpriced joke of an organization. The only thing they offer that is resonable is the CFI program(like rick already stated). IIRC, solo in a 172 works out to about $180-190 an hour. Their maint. is ok. But it's not a very good place to learn. The whole "team teaching" approach rubs me the wrong way. You never know what your walking into as an instructor/student when you show up. And they pay abslute crap. But, with everything I just said, if you get the right location (cost of living) it could be a good eal for you. Just don't get "sold" by some salesman on the phone.
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