I'm a private pilot (with about 110 hours - got most of them while training for my Instrument Rating).

I am not your average kid seduced by the (empty) promises of sparkles, shiny jets and hot flight attendants.

I know about the 15 hours days, I know about the instability of this industry and I am familiar with the fact that I will be working for peanuts.

Truth be told ... I've seen the "other side". I don't like working in sales, I don't like the degree I am going for right now (International Relations) and I DON'T LIKE ****ty flight schools.

I've seen a few ...

- I've studied at a flight school in PA that had good instructors (well, actually it was only one person) but it was always threatened by bankruptcy. Old airplane, well they had two ... but one of them got grounded because they didn't have the money to overhaul the engine.

I love scraping ice from the wings (10 F) because they couldn't afford a hangar (it goes without saying that sometimes I couldn't remove all the ice, and as a student pilot ... that didn't know any better, I didn't say anything about it ...the results were not always pleasant - I did learn my lesson after I got scared ****less while taking off ... and the CFI was pretending that nothing happened)

- I've studied at a flight school in TX. I know there are some very nice places in Texas, and even though this place was only about an hour north of Dallas ... it felt like the redneck capital of the world.

Very shady outfit ... even though it was part 141.

- no 50 hours inspections
- I am pretty sure I was more up to date with the IFR flying than the CFII (or with the regs)
- It did have the coveted G1000 avionics ... but what's the use for that when the CFII doesn't teach you the systems?

"well ... uh ... you'll learn it on the go"

"fair enough but for my piece of mind, I want to buy the G1000 book"

"Uh ... we ain't selling that here" (say it with a Texan accent ... so texan that it was hard to understand)

I want to be a professional pilot, I love flying ... it is an amazing experience. I also want to be a very good pilot (I know ... you will say that I can learn to fly anywhere but from my experience that is not the case)

I don't want mediocrity ... I want to be the best pilot I can possibly be, and get the best training I can possibly get.

* I am not rich, I will have to take loans.

The plan:

I want to transfer to an aviation college, here are my choices:

1) Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (many people told me that they are the best, they are also rather expensive ... but I am willing to pay if the quality is good.)

2) UND (I have a friend that graduated from there ... it seems like a fine school. I am not too excited about living in North Dakota though)

3) Kent State University (this is the backup plan)

I think (from my calculations) that UND is about 10000$ cheaper per year (I might be wrong, the part of their website that states the price for flying is not working for some reason, so I am estimating). I am willing to pay the money if I get a better education at ERAU.

What do you guys (and girls) think about this three schools? Am I completely nuts to be forking this much $ considering the state of the industry?

I know only one thing ... I am done with your Mom 'N' Pop's flight schools!

 

First, get rid the the fancy avionics packages such as the G1000. That is the last thing you need to be using during your primary training. Personally, I would like to see you/all have the first 2000hrs on steam gauges. I had a few co-pilots that came off of the RJ to the 742 and some of 'em had problems transitioning back to standard instruments

Second, I cannot recommend Riddle as a school nowadays and I am a '93 grad from there. I would go to a normal school such a Auburn, Perdue Or Kent State that also happen to have flying programs. That way you will get the real college experience and fly at the same time.

Don't knock the mom and pop flight schools. They can be some of the best places to get instruction. You just have to find one that has descent instructors and that is the hard part at ANY school.

Its been a few yrs since I have been a CFI but if I remember correctly the inspection is due at 100hrs and not 50.

 

Sounds like you'll fit in perfect at ERAU.


You have a very limited experience with "mom 'n' pop" flight schools. Many people on this forum (including) myself have trained through part 61 schools. Some may stretch TBO times, some are a little shady... but there are some that actually do it for the love of having a flight school and instructing. I don't have a single complaint about the place I went through... they have been great in every way.

I went to ERAU for a little bit... I didn't fly there because when it boils down to it.. you're paying beaucoup mulah for a 172 (G1000)... for the same 172 (maybe without the G1000). Is the instruction better? Part 61 schools take FAA checkrides based on PTS standards... either way you need to meet those standards. I have a friend that goes to ERAU (AS major) he just finished his private. When he took his checkride he had 80hrs - it cost him $20,000 in flight time/lab... that's no joke. I did everything through CSEL/CMEL etc... for less than that.

......but don't let me talk you out of going there.

 

You are correct, 100 hour inspection.

 

Yes, it is 100 hours ... they are perfectly legal.

I was talking about the fact that some schools choose to have a 50 hours inspection. I think that's the smarter way to do it.

Did my PPL flying the six pack (part 61) ... I like it much more than the G1000. Don't get me wrong, I like some of the features of the G1000 but I think there is too much automation, and too many buttons to push ... it kinda takes the fun out of it.

I am convinced that there are some nice FBOs out there ... but I didn't find any (within 1 hour drive).

I understand that the PTS standards are the same ... I am hoping that I will go past the PTS because I am getting the feeling that the PTS is just average.

I am not talking only about the flight training, I am also talking about the ground school part of it.

P.S. Another reason for it is because I've been flying for 4 years (3 part 61, 1 part 141) and I only have 110 hours. Part of it is because of money (I worked my way through it) and part of it was because of the lack of instructors, flight school bankruptcy and the selling of the flight school to the highest bidder (that happened to be an *******) .

 

You should put MTSU on your list.
Make sure you check in with each school, I know at MTSU if you come in with your instrument rating already in hand, you might have some issues getting a "Professional Pilot" degree since they require you to get 4 of your ratings with their flight school.

If you decide to get another sort of degree (really good idea, anybody who has an Aerospace degree agrees they should have gotten something else), there are a few "mom and pop" flight schools in the MTSU area that are good. Cost of living there is cheap, and once you get in-state tuition it's super cheap.

 

50 hours inspections are good - they are really just a bit more than an oil change, maybe inspecting safety wires, changing tires if needed, etc....

I can respect the fact you worked for your ratings... I did that also... swept hangars, mowed lawns, washed airplanes, etc... it payed off more than I'd have imagined - and no loans. It was hard work.... but often times the value of your training is what you make it to be. This is especially evident in the groundschool portion. There is an incredible amount of books and internet material to learn about every aviation subject. One of the cool things about part 61 training is that if you are proactive you can do things like learn about the aircraft/engine from an A&P by just helping out in the hangar, turning a wrench or doing what not...spend enough time in there and you could get signed off for your A&P (if they're an IA). Another thing about being at a small airport/FBO is getting to know the people and networking for your future. After a few friendly conversations you may find a former fighter pilot who will ask you if you want to learn how to do some tactical flying and aerobatics in his radial engine warbird (for free!)... all you need to do is wash the oil off the belly when you land....pretty soon he likes the way you fly and asks you to go "exercise" his birds.

Big schools like ERAU can do all of these things but for several times the cost. There is just a really great world of GA flying at some airports you won't find at high-dollar pilot factories. Consistent with your first post, there are bamboozlers out there in the "mom 'n' pop" world just as there are in the 141 university world.

 

I want to thank everyone for their answers!

I have a question for a recent graduate of UND (Commercial Aviation or Flight Education major)

How much did the whole thing cost you (an estimate)?

1) Did you have any previous flight experience?
if yes ... what did you have to do to get credit for it (remedial training, mock check-rides etc.)

2) Did you live on campus?

3) What do you think about Grand Forks?

4) Did you establish residence in ND?

P.S. I read that ERAU costs 100,000$ more than UND, is that acurate?

P.P.S. I think I am willing to fight the freezing temperature ... I read some horror stories about the guy/girl ratio at ERAU + I am not willing to fork 200,000$ to go to ERAU when I can pay 100,000$ to go to UND (is that about right?).

- I am trying to get the best information I can from their websites ... but it's kinda hard to pick and choose around all the kool aid and bull****

- As you can probably tell I am pretty much all over the place (when it comes to choosing a school) ... the lack of factual information is the problem (I'm trying to get 3rd party info about this 3 schools ERAU, UND, Kent but almost everything I read is biased)

 

All these 200K, 100K figues are making my head spin. Do you realise that the career you have chosen will top out at about 60K on average your first decade or two and eventually breaking that mark when you've got white hair? You will make less than a bus driver for a very long period of time, like 10 20 years not some 1st year live with your parents and move out kind of deal. It's riddicous.

First of all, flying and school have absolutely no relation. Do you have family at other parts of the nation? At most places FBOs are cheaper and run properly. Go to your local state college get an education cheap. Because this job is cheap. And get your ratings cheap. This is not a top tier job, despite what yahoo says. You won't be an engineer or lawyer where you'll start at 70k. You will start in poverty and remain there indfinetly, plan accordingly.

 

I know what I'm getting into (or at least I think I know what I'm getting into) I thought I made that clear in my first post.

I have a problem though:

I wanted to be a pilot ever since I was seven and I am not analytical, or powerful enough to deny my dream and do something else.

I tried, I did the state school thing ... but my mind is always in the airplane.
I did toy with the idea of quitting this whole flying thing and go to law school ... but I think I will be miserable.

I would rather do this and fail than doing something else and asking myself my entire life "What if ...?"

P.S. Don't think I'm bashing all the local FBOs ... I am bashing the ones I was part of.

P.P.S. @AirWillie no need to bring me down to earth ... I understand the state of the industry, and I understand the nature of the job (sometimes glorified(ish) bus driver comes to mind, but there is no need for me to pull that one out of the bag)

Yes, I am familiar with what it entails ... but I think this act alone tells me a lot about the FBO (it tells me that this people are willing to go beyond the bare minimums)

- I am still waiting for your answers ...