Michken

I currently am 8 1/2 months from my terminal leave and my wife and myself are starting to have a heart attack because I cant seem to get things to mesh.

I am about 5 hours away from my private pilot check ride. I plan on going to a school to go all the way up to my CFI II. Heres the problem. There are minimal if any schools right now that are part 141 and are still receiving funding from sallie mae. The MGI Bill only pays 60%, if that, and I cant shell out $23k out of pocket for this training. I NEED A STUDENT LOAN! Unfortunately for me its easier to get a $100k for something retarded like a down payment for a lambo then it is to get a student loan for flight school.



Ok so here are the questions.

1. Has anyone else been in this situation, and what did you do.

2. I think American Flyers in Chicago is going to have to be my choice but I hear more bad things about AF and ATP then good by far.

3. Is it worth the trouble. I'm already in debt about 5k for my private license should I cut my losses due to my situation?

4. Has anyone been to and instructed for AF in Chicago? If so what is there pay scale roughly and work environment like?

5. Does the Army purposely make it hard to do things other than be in the Army?

6. Am I going to be a SGT for the next 15 years in the MP corp instead of following my dream to fly commercially in todays market?



Thanks!

EP11

From my perspective it sounds like you don't have enough put aside in savings to feel comfortable with your decision. I can't shed any light on your exact situation but I have a friend who gave up a good engineering career 2 years ago to pursue his dream of flying. He is still instructing at the local FBO, building up hours and waiting for the industry to turn. His timeline has stretched out longer and longer as the student pool dries up and the industry stagnates.

If you go this route be prepared to be waiting on the sideline for a while. Imagine all the pilots on furlough right now, folks in the hiring pool, CFI's with a couple thousand hours looking to make the jump etc... Your place in line could be a ways back.

To look at your questions:
1. Not really. I'm seperated from AD after 10 years and flying for the local reserve unit until the industry comes around or I grow up and get a real job. My wife and I saved a substantial amount to cushion the transition to the outside.

2. Go with your gut after meeting with the instructors, looking at the equipment and facilities and comparing all the services.

3. Check your motivation and desire to get into the industry. If you are hesitant at this early point in your career, things will only get harder.

4. No idea, but you will be taking a pay cut from your Army job if you factor in all the benefits you now receive. Life/Health/Dental Insurance and gym membership alone run me $400/month, perks you take for granted in the military.

5. There's obviously much more beneath the surface in this question. Coming from the AF I can't speak to your situation.

6. That is completely up to you.

Good luck

rickair7777

Yes and No.

Yes, people have been in your situation before.

But No, you are in uncharted territory due to the economy, and the sorry state of the financial and aviation industries.

Lenders are are much tighter now, ridiculously so. Also career prospects in aviation are very poor in the near/mid-term and uncertain in the long run. I personally would not loan money to someone who wanted to try to break into aviation right now. Even if you get a regional job, you will probably be an FO for a very long time...and FO's cannot afford large loan payments.

Honestly, I would go get a real education and a real job and then pay for your training on the side over time. Then if the industry looks better, make the move at that time.

Also don't kind yourself...you will need a 4-year degree to succeed in aviation.

Some of the AF branches may be OK, but it all depends on the local leadership. Only the students and possibly instructors can give you the straight scoop on that.

Finish the PPL and use your GI Bill to go to college. Re-evaluate the industry later. If you have kids, probably better forget about aviation.

AF used to pay line instructors 8-10 buck an hour. They got rid of the benefits years ago, and you only get paid the hours you work, not a salary. Student assignment is political, not by seniority. If they like you, you work. Work environment depends entirely on the leadership. Other schools are similar, except they probably pay more.

Also be aware that flyers does little or no ME instruction. You will need ME time to move beyond instructing, and you will have to go somewhere else to get it. Since MEI jobs usually go by seniority, it is probably best to start your CFI career at a school which has MEI opportunities later.

It's the nature of the beast.

I would advise you to at least stay in the reserves...that will provide supplemental income and a fall-back job if you get furloughed. Of course it will also provide the occasional desert vacation... Also get your degree and get a commission. 10-15 years down the road the payscale will be much better, as well as the retirement check. Aviation requires a second job/career, and it is a lot easier to schedule military duty with the airlines than other gigs.

One school of thought is that the best time to do flight training is when the industry is down...that way you will be ready to catch the next wave, if there ever is one. If oil prices go back up before alternative fuels are available, aviation will be done.

Barnstormer

Apply for WOFT. Good pay and the most fun you will ever have in an aircraft.

HSLD

Things to consider:

1. The financial meltdown has all but eliminated student loans for flight training, as you're find it will require self funding combined with benefits (in your case). Don't plan on loans to fund your training.

2. There is proposed legislation in the House that will require any pilot carrying passengers to hold an ATP (1500 hours PIC, 1st class medical, etc.). This requirement alone has the potential to add several years to the "apprenticeship" path to becoming an airline pilot.

3. Tens of thousands of qualified pilots are on furlough right now due to the shrinking economy and shrinking airlines. As airlines begin to grow if and when the economy turns around there is ample qualified labor to fill the seats.

If this is your dream, go for it, but know that you couldn't have picked a more uncertain and difficult career path.

USMCFLYR

Well....that might be a matter of opinion

USMCFLYR

UP AND AWAY

Ets, finish your flight training at atp, if you read some horror story about them it is probally from the party boy that thought his instructor was going to hold him tight and walk him through everything. I went to ATP/Arlington,TX. Hard as hell to keep pace, but if you stay head down on the books no problem. Best multi training available, i flew 12,000 miles cross country in 16 days, most days in the clouds, and shooting approches down to the mins. Finsh your training go back in the military as a warrant officer, in the reserve, and they will pay back all your student loans. FYI, active duty army, cav scout 19d, ets 2002

Michken

Thanks to everyone for replying. I fully intend to get out and continue my training. I believe that if I can make it through 15 months in Iraq getting paid minimum wage I can make it through a few years of it doing somthing I truly enjoy. As for the ATP school im happy to hear that they are not all they have been said to be in the forums however its gunna take alot more research on my end before ill fully trust them. There are over whelming masses that say otherwise about them.
thanks again

slipped

ATP is just fine I went there, they do what they say and its pretty good training. Why is there negative feelings toward atp?

Slice

Overpriced, especially in today's job market. No need to pay a premium to finish in 90 days when there are no jobs to be had. Lower experienced CFI's would be number two on the list. Yes, I realize there are exceptions.