toeman9

Ok. So I've wandred the earth for the last seven years as a social worker. I'm 32 years old and have finally decided enough is enough, I want to go to flight school. 8 years ago I was getting my PPL when I ran out of money and did not want to go into debt just to be a "bus driver" in the sky (this term came from my strained relationship with my father who is a retired commercial pilot. I would say it just to tick him off. Things are better now).

I am married and plan on not having children. As a child, I experienced the strains of moving around from place to place just so my dad could land jobs. I grew up only seeing my dad a few days a month. For those of you with spouses, how does this work for your marriage?

I am willing to go into SOME debt to achieve my goal as a commercial pilot. There seems to be a few programs that get you in and out in 1-2 years for $50k (ATP, Delta). I've read several posts warning to steer clear of these types of programs. But how else can I get to regionals in a couple of years without the type of training and connections that these guys offer? I feel like I'm starting out pretty late and I don't have the time to just "hang out" with pilots and get flight time that way.

Is $50k, moving around, and only seeing your spouse sometimes too much to sacrifice for an uncertain airline career? Let's face it, the industry isn't experiencing the kind of boom of my father's time in the 1960's and 70's. Should I just stay a social worker at $30k a year and save up and "buy a plane"?

LAfrequentflyer

You're better off staying a social worker. Really. If you can afford to front-load the cost of training at ALLATPs then do it.

Check out the posts in money talk about loans / debt...They are eye opening...


Does your wife work?

-LAFF

HSLD

Do some searches on this board and you'll find many many posts on jumping into aviation. I'm sure you've run a few spreadsheets that show payments on the $50K loan, vs. ~$1300/mo. take home, vs. future value of lost wages while you train. Throw in the "can I get hired", "how long to upgrade", and "why are airline wages going down" variables and you really have a risky career move just to "chase a dream".

The stark reality is that it might well be 8 more years before you see $30K/yr again. I hate to bring you down, but it is a very risky career move.

atpwannabe

toeman9:

You may want to check out ATP. They've got the best program out there as for as training goes. I have looked at other flight schools/academies and you accrue more multi time at ATP than you would at any other school/academy in the nation. No other facility can touch them. You come away with 190 hrs of multi-engine time.

And no, you're not starting too late. I'll be 45 when starting at ATP.

Best wishes & blue skies.

atp

toeman9

yes, my spouse has a career and brings in about $50k a year. unfortunately there are student loans to be paid off. i find it funny that people go and spend so much for school only to make enough money to pay loans back so that their take home pay is as much as it was before the degree. but sometimes the point of an education is not about money, but about doing something that you love to do.
oh well.

i, too, work and plan on working through flight school. my job is fine and i even have a small business on the side that brings in a bit of spending cash. but non of these things are really brining me any kind of joy or gratification. they just end up being things i do.

it makes me sad to read replies that discourage me from entering the airline industry. i guess could play it safe and keep on doing what i'm doing, but then i'll never really know if i truly followed my dream.

cubanfiredawg

Toeman,
I was in your shoes a couple months ago. I'm a little younger 25, but had all of the same questions. I've just returned from an 18-mo stint in Iraq as a firefighter medic and PSD medic. The one thing I learned from being out there is that you only live once.
If you are really serious about the whole thing then go for it! I checked out both Delta and ATP. I choose ATP hands down.
Delta was cool with all there showboating and “we're owned by the airlines thing”, but I found them to be quite a bit pricier. Don't get me wrong they do know what they are teaching and you get done quickly. But after talking to some of the instructors I found out some of them had to wait as long as three months to get hired on as an instructor. With ATP the lead-time was any where from getting hired right out of training to about two weeks, depending on the location.
ATP is also about half as expensive as Delta. Around $44,000 not including you PPL. Housing is included in that with the fast track-program. With Delta you could expect another $700 mo. Another HUGE advantage is that after your PPL almost all of your time is done in a twin. Delta only offered 24hrs. The people at ATP also seemed a little more relaxed. At Delta it seemed as if everything was always do or die.
Those are my experiences some people like delta more but for my bucks ATP was the one. Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions. A big thanks to everyone who contributes to the site. It has helped me more than you know
!

toeman9

cubanfiredawg,
i hear what you mean about only living once. yeah it's a risky career move and yes it is a big chunk of change, but i can't be a social worker forever. like i've said before, there are some very discouraging posts here regarding entering aviation, but you can make the same argument for just about any career (being risky and competitive). heck, i tried being an artist and made about $1000 in one year. ugh!

i appreciate your words of encouragement! delta is definitely out the door. i live 2 miles from a municipal airport where atp is located. i plan on doing my ppl at a mom and pop at the same airport then transfer to atp just because of their twin engine time. unfortunately the atp location here in my city is a bit dreary. their "office" looked like a boys dorm room with trash everywhere and guys sitting around with their feet on their desks and a distinct smell of very old coffee (perhaps permanently imbedded into the carpets). the instructors looked dazed and confused when i asked them for a tour but one of them eventually gave me one then proceeded to advise me to study and lay off the liquor. weird.

i got a feeling that it was like a sausage factory at atp; mass-production, cranking student out and turning them into instructors as instructors leave - keep it moving. quantity not quality.
anyway, i'm hoping that by the time i head to atp for the rest of my training (jan. '07) that a new set of more "sophisticated" instructors will be on staff. who knows.

thanks again to everyone for sharing their knowledge and supporting us all!

rickair7777

Good idea on the PLL. Do this BEFORE you quit your real job. Make sure you really like flying.

Welcome to general aviation. If you want large, shiny, clean facilities it can be had for an extra $80K at the large academies. But the instructors are same everywhere.

highly unlikely

Cass

The guys are right, in the end the tickets count the same irregardless ofwhere you get them. My advice is to keep the day job,get your tickets at ma n pas Then start looking for a job.
News Alert: you can trot down to Delta or ATP or riddle and get a job at one of those schools.
Multi is the ticket out . Be a "multi *****" then transition to turboprops as soon as you can. Turbojet time is the jackpot
Good luck

cubanfiredawg

Anytime Toeman9,

Let us all know how it turns out for ya! I start the Airline Trans @ ATP in Aug. I'll let you know how it goes. Dose anyone know what life is like in Jacksonville Fl. ??? Hope it's like MIA. LOL