Logging ground training vs. endorsement
01-31-2010, 08:00 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CFII
Posts: 139
Logging ground training vs. endorsement
I am working on my CFI, and have done all my training part 61 with GLEIM and CPC for my ground training. As such, I am looking through CFI glasses know at the regs and how they pertain to using home study courses.
61.187(a) states
"must receive and log flight and ground training.....on the areas of operation...."
Does the endorsement out of 61-65 qualify the above requirment? The endorsement is this one "I certify....has received the required training of 61.187(b). I have determined he/she is prepared for the CFI...practical test."
I am looking at my logbook and I certainly don't have much "ground training" logged?
The reason I use the CFI certificate as an example is that the rec,priv,and commercial certificates have a clause about "or reviewed home study course" where the CFI does not.
Thanks
61.187(a) states
"must receive and log flight and ground training.....on the areas of operation...."
Does the endorsement out of 61-65 qualify the above requirment? The endorsement is this one "I certify....has received the required training of 61.187(b). I have determined he/she is prepared for the CFI...practical test."
I am looking at my logbook and I certainly don't have much "ground training" logged?
The reason I use the CFI certificate as an example is that the rec,priv,and commercial certificates have a clause about "or reviewed home study course" where the CFI does not.
Thanks
01-31-2010, 08:14 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CFII
Posts: 139
Also, compare my previous example question to the aeronautical knowlege requirments in 61.185(a). There, it also states you must receive and log ground and flight training on the FOI.
61.183(d) states I need an endorsment for the FOI listed in 61.185(a) and then 61.185 (a) states I need to log ground and flight training. Then throw in the endorsmenet stating "i've received the required FOI training of section 61.185(a)"
Im confused....does the endorsement required by 61.183(b) satisfy the "logging ground training" requirment of 61.185(a) or not??
Or are we talking about two seperate things....the logging of some ground training on FOI as well as an endorsement on the FOI
Sorry I didnt make this as clear as someone could
61.183(d) states I need an endorsment for the FOI listed in 61.185(a) and then 61.185 (a) states I need to log ground and flight training. Then throw in the endorsmenet stating "i've received the required FOI training of section 61.185(a)"
Im confused....does the endorsement required by 61.183(b) satisfy the "logging ground training" requirment of 61.185(a) or not??
Or are we talking about two seperate things....the logging of some ground training on FOI as well as an endorsement on the FOI
Sorry I didnt make this as clear as someone could
Last edited by sellener; 01-31-2010 at 08:17 AM. Reason: confused
01-31-2010, 08:59 AM
#3
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Yes, you need to log the required ground.
I used to log ground training, but only enough to meet the requirement not every single session. I usually just used the final checkride prep review session since that should cover everything. I would log date, a reasonable number of hours, and copy the required subjects VERBATIM out of the FARs.
Don't log it in your flight log section, do it in the back of the logbook on a note page or something. I actually had all the verbage on my computer and would print it out as needed on sticky-back paper and past ino the students logbook.
I used to log ground training, but only enough to meet the requirement not every single session. I usually just used the final checkride prep review session since that should cover everything. I would log date, a reasonable number of hours, and copy the required subjects VERBATIM out of the FARs.
Don't log it in your flight log section, do it in the back of the logbook on a note page or something. I actually had all the verbage on my computer and would print it out as needed on sticky-back paper and past ino the students logbook.
01-31-2010, 03:47 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CFII
Posts: 139
As I prepare for my CFI stuff and scour the regs, I agree with you in that the ground training should be logged. I find it curious that I have no logged ground training in my logbook for my private and commercial.
Have you ever heard of CFI's incorrectly assuming the endorsement stating (and im paraphrasing) "I have given so and so the instruction required by 61.127 and found him proficient to pass the practical test," would suffice for ground training logged?
Obviously the DPE that gave me my private/comm rides didnt turn his nose up?
Curious if this is source of confusion to some CFI's?
Have you ever heard of CFI's incorrectly assuming the endorsement stating (and im paraphrasing) "I have given so and so the instruction required by 61.127 and found him proficient to pass the practical test," would suffice for ground training logged?
Obviously the DPE that gave me my private/comm rides didnt turn his nose up?
Curious if this is source of confusion to some CFI's?
Last edited by sellener; 01-31-2010 at 03:50 PM. Reason: wrong reg
01-31-2010, 07:11 PM
#5
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,293
Originally Posted by sellener
As I prepare for my CFI stuff and scour the regs, I agree with you in that the ground training should be logged. I find it curious that I have no logged ground training in my logbook for my private and commercial.
Have you ever heard of CFI's incorrectly assuming the endorsement stating (and im paraphrasing) "I have given so and so the instruction required by 61.127 and found him proficient to pass the practical test," would suffice for ground training logged?
Obviously the DPE that gave me my private/comm rides didnt turn his nose up?
Curious if this is source of confusion to some CFI's?
Have you ever heard of CFI's incorrectly assuming the endorsement stating (and im paraphrasing) "I have given so and so the instruction required by 61.127 and found him proficient to pass the practical test," would suffice for ground training logged?
Obviously the DPE that gave me my private/comm rides didnt turn his nose up?
Curious if this is source of confusion to some CFI's?
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