In that case it just becomes a REALLY busy uncontrolled airport. And usually a neighboring ARTCC is able to get control of the downed airspace (take for example when the phone lines got cut at ZME).

 

Then in this scenario you could have multiple aircraft arriving at the same point, at the same altitude, with the same ETA all holding in IMC together. Sounds like another reason to get the heck out of dodge !

So far, in the times that I have gone nordo, it has been fairly easy to tell what part of the system has broken down. Of course I usually had the ability to at least communicate with someone else using hand signals.

TCAS working Well now we are talking about one segment of aviation. A true lost comm scenario as a single aircraft is true IMC enroute and all the way down to an approach was always one of the things that I most dreaded. Fortunately - my situations never combined all those ingredients together at one time.

USMCFLYR

 

I thought they don't release aircraft knowing they will arrive at the destination at the same time? Even if that is true the large amount of airplanes in the sky and impossibility to get ETA down to the minute all the time would likely cause aircraft to arrive at the same point at the same time.

 

Again - you might be right talking about a normal situation, but in the scenario precipitating this massive lost comm nightmare, who can say that the system would work as advertised?
I usually tried to be pretty optimistic in my ETA anyways, plus I swear it was almost impossible to get off the deck at the scheduled takeoff time
The airlines do a much better job than I ever did!

USMCFLYR

 

And I thought I was the only one who had that problem.

 

Yea, for me this has always been the hardest one to explain to my students. You have the regulatory information, you have that letter I posted earlier in the topic (about disregarding crossing restrictions), and then you have common sense and PIC authority in regards to an emergency.

Hard to find any concrete scenario-solvers, that makes everyone happy

 

Are we on a checkride or real world

Checkride - teach the reg, don't land at departure airport.

Real World - if you're just off the ground, ATC does not want you leaving JFK going to LAX loss comm...not helpful.

Loss comm is not an emergency, although it can turn into one for other reasons.

1) Leave clearance limit (without GPS how do you know where the airport is anyway?) and proceed to IAF and hold until ETA.

2) Good luck, this same argument can be made for published portions of an approach (feeder route for example). If the min altitude on a feeder route is lower than your Expected/Assigned...what do you fly? Arguments can be made both ways. In the FL410 example, commence a normal descent once within range and on a published portion.

In reality, the rules are designed for NON-RADAR because if you're squawking 7600 ATC can see you.

The AIM has some good examples as well.

 

To answer the original question, my thought would be that in the strictest sense that you would hold at the fix until your ETA at FL410. According to 185c3i - you commence DESCENT at the eta. So you would descend in the holding pattern until you are able to descend using normal flight maneuvers to shoot the approach. Yes, it is totally asinine, but like I said (according to my interpretation) in the strictest sense, that's what you would have to do.

Now here is a similar question that feeds off the initial. What defines where an "approach begins" (same reg)? For instance, a small airport has an ILS and your last navaid on your route was the ABC vor, then the airport. The ABC VOR isn't itself an IAF but a feeder route (a medium line, with alt, distance and radial. not the thick transitions). Do you hold over the VOR or do you hold over the IAF?