What IFR time do airlines look at?
05-12-2009, 08:02 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: PA-44 Left Seat :P
Posts: 219
What IFR time do airlines look at?
Do airlines look at IFR flights in terms of you just filling an IFR flightplan and flying it even if its perfect VFR weather or is there a difference between filing IFR flights and flying into actual IFR meaning flying into IMC?
I don't know much about the IFR rating yet but just wanted to know.
PS: Is simulated IFR looked at by the airlines at all?
I don't know much about the IFR rating yet but just wanted to know.
PS: Is simulated IFR looked at by the airlines at all?
05-13-2009, 06:17 AM
#3
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
If you can't see the horizon/imc (in other words, if you only looked out the window for orientation, and you would crash) then you log Instrument time. That applies for the pilots in the crew (ie: two pilot crew, you both log instrument time). Instrument time is like day/night. When you are a required crewmember (pilot), you either log day or night or vmc/imc.
"Hood" time or simulated instrument is logged as such. So, you could be IMC, VMC or Hood, on any particular flight
Simulator time is logged as sim time, and should not be logged in total time.
When U apply to airlines, they all do it differently:
Some want to know how much Actual Instrument time you have
Others want a combination of Actual and Hood together
Others want Actual time and then your Simulator time
Others want Actual, and then Hood, and then Sim time
Others want you to combine Actual/Simulator/Hood all together.
Others want to know just your simulator time
Clear as mud?
cliff
NBO
If you can't see the horizon/imc (in other words, if you only looked out the window for orientation, and you would crash) then you log Instrument time. That applies for the pilots in the crew (ie: two pilot crew, you both log instrument time). Instrument time is like day/night. When you are a required crewmember (pilot), you either log day or night or vmc/imc.
"Hood" time or simulated instrument is logged as such. So, you could be IMC, VMC or Hood, on any particular flight
Simulator time is logged as sim time, and should not be logged in total time.
When U apply to airlines, they all do it differently:
Some want to know how much Actual Instrument time you have
Others want a combination of Actual and Hood together
Others want Actual time and then your Simulator time
Others want Actual, and then Hood, and then Sim time
Others want you to combine Actual/Simulator/Hood all together.
Others want to know just your simulator time
Clear as mud?
cliff
NBO
05-13-2009, 01:36 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ900, Left Seat
Posts: 71
Logging Instrument Time and a Bit More Info
HectorD:
Different airlines have different requirements and minimums. You can usually find out what they are by visiting their website.
The airline I fly for posts the following requirements for interviews:
These are a few of the things the my airline is looking for. I hope this answers your questions about instrument time.
To Your Flying Success...
Jeff
Different airlines have different requirements and minimums. You can usually find out what they are by visiting their website.
The airline I fly for posts the following requirements for interviews:
To be considered for a Pilot position, you must meet the following requirements:
- Must be at least 21 years of age
- Commercial Multi-Engine License with Instrument Privileges
- Current First Class Medical (which will be verified at the interview)
- Must be a United States citizen or show proof of right to work in the US
- FCC Radio License
- English Proficiency Endorsement (EPE)
- Current U.S. Passport
- If currently with another carrier, must be willing to rescind seniority with that carrier
The following are the minimums in order to be considered:
1,000 hours Total Time Fixed-Wing (preferred)
100 hours Multi-Engine
100 hours Instrument (Only 20 hours simulator or flight training device (FTD) will be accepted).
Use FAR 61.51 as your guide.
FAR 61.51 states:
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated (i.e., using IFR goggles or hood) instrument flight conditions.
When Counting Helicopter or Glider Time we recognizes the skills common to helicopter and glider flying. We will accept up to one hour of flight time for every two hours helo time, not to exceed 250 hours. (Note: they didn't mention glider again but I think they count it the same as helo time, they just don't say so.)
Example:
750 hours fixed-wing
500 hours helo
Recognized: 500 hours/2 = 250 recognized helo time applicable to total time.
750 (fixed) + 250 (helo) = 1000 hours total time
Remember though, these are MINIMUMS. To be competitive during the interview, you should have more than ALL the above. Any time flying actual IFR is a real bonus.- Must be at least 21 years of age
- Commercial Multi-Engine License with Instrument Privileges
- Current First Class Medical (which will be verified at the interview)
- Must be a United States citizen or show proof of right to work in the US
- FCC Radio License
- English Proficiency Endorsement (EPE)
- Current U.S. Passport
- If currently with another carrier, must be willing to rescind seniority with that carrier
The following are the minimums in order to be considered:
1,000 hours Total Time Fixed-Wing (preferred)
100 hours Multi-Engine
100 hours Instrument (Only 20 hours simulator or flight training device (FTD) will be accepted).
Use FAR 61.51 as your guide.
FAR 61.51 states:
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated (i.e., using IFR goggles or hood) instrument flight conditions.
When Counting Helicopter or Glider Time we recognizes the skills common to helicopter and glider flying. We will accept up to one hour of flight time for every two hours helo time, not to exceed 250 hours. (Note: they didn't mention glider again but I think they count it the same as helo time, they just don't say so.)
Example:
750 hours fixed-wing
500 hours helo
Recognized: 500 hours/2 = 250 recognized helo time applicable to total time.
750 (fixed) + 250 (helo) = 1000 hours total time
These are a few of the things the my airline is looking for. I hope this answers your questions about instrument time.
To Your Flying Success...
Jeff
05-13-2009, 07:14 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: E-170
Posts: 173
If you took a group of commercial pilots they would all have a different answer for "when can you log actual IFR" the correct answer is when you are in IFR conditions (no reference to horizon) if your on an IFR FP in vfr conditions you cannot log any Instrument time and cannot log any approach you do because you must fly the approach under actual or simulated instrument. I worked with a guy that logged actual instrument any time he couldn't see the ground (above a layer) i would love to see the look on the interviewers face when they here that!
05-13-2009, 07:59 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,835
Originally Posted by propjunkie
If you took a group of commercial pilots they would all have a different answer for "when can you log actual IFR" the correct answer is when you are in IFR conditions (no reference to horizon) if your on an IFR FP in vfr conditions you cannot log any Instrument time and cannot log any approach you do because you must fly the approach under actual or simulated instrument. I worked with a guy that logged actual instrument any time he couldn't see the ground (above a layer) i would love to see the look on the interviewers face when they here that!
USMCFLYR
05-14-2009, 08:29 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: E-170
Posts: 173
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
How about if you can see the ground but not the horizon? What do you think of a dark, dark night - but not a cloud around?
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
05-14-2009, 02:10 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
A lot of airlines do NOT have a simulator evaluation.
I think it's simple: If you can look out the window, and keep it upright, it is VMC. If it's night over water, and you look out the window, it is black. To prevent a crash, you HAVE to fly by instruments.
Flying over a cloud layer...is the cloud layer horizontal to the horizon? Oh, that's right, you can't SEE the horizon flying over a cloud layer. I have seen cloud layers that WERE parallel with the ground, and others that weren't.
I'll go back to my statement. If you are over a cloud layer, and you can look out the window and safely fly, it is Visual. If you HAVE To use your instruments to keep it upright, it is INstrument time.
cliff
NBO
PS-Just flew a night leg, with lots of clouds, everywhere. Could I keep it upright looking out the window? I'm not sure, I couldn't really see much of anything except clouds and lightning. I logged it as instrument time, until we broke out and could clearly see the ground and the airport.
A lot of airlines do NOT have a simulator evaluation.
I think it's simple: If you can look out the window, and keep it upright, it is VMC. If it's night over water, and you look out the window, it is black. To prevent a crash, you HAVE to fly by instruments.
Flying over a cloud layer...is the cloud layer horizontal to the horizon? Oh, that's right, you can't SEE the horizon flying over a cloud layer. I have seen cloud layers that WERE parallel with the ground, and others that weren't.
I'll go back to my statement. If you are over a cloud layer, and you can look out the window and safely fly, it is Visual. If you HAVE To use your instruments to keep it upright, it is INstrument time.
cliff
NBO
PS-Just flew a night leg, with lots of clouds, everywhere. Could I keep it upright looking out the window? I'm not sure, I couldn't really see much of anything except clouds and lightning. I logged it as instrument time, until we broke out and could clearly see the ground and the airport.
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