IAF course reversal
05-29-2009, 06:02 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CFII
Posts: 139
IAF course reversal
Your flying north towards ABC vor. ABC vor is located at your destination and you intend to fly the ABC VOR 36 approach. You filed to ABC vor and intend to fly the full procedure.
Where do I find in the Regs or AC's what procedure to use to establish myself outbound on the approach? Self made procedure turn/course reversal?
I have gathered from forums and instructors, to just turn the shortest distance on course outbound.
Where do I find in the Regs or AC's what procedure to use to establish myself outbound on the approach? Self made procedure turn/course reversal?
I have gathered from forums and instructors, to just turn the shortest distance on course outbound.
05-29-2009, 08:59 AM
#2
Prime Minister/Moderator
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AIM 5-4-9.
You need an amended clearance to do that. There should be a procedure turn charted...if it is the generic PT, you can use whatever PT technique you like as long as you stay on the protected side. If a teardrop or hold is charted, you must use that specific procedure.
If there is no PT charted (not sure I have ever seen that) you would need to ask ATC which side to turn on...if it was not charted, there might be a good reason for that.
You need an amended clearance to do that. There should be a procedure turn charted...if it is the generic PT, you can use whatever PT technique you like as long as you stay on the protected side. If a teardrop or hold is charted, you must use that specific procedure.
If there is no PT charted (not sure I have ever seen that) you would need to ask ATC which side to turn on...if it was not charted, there might be a good reason for that.
05-29-2009, 09:20 AM
#3
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someone correct me if im wrong here. the altitude assigned/depicted to the iaf will give you clearance to make the turn with the fewest amount of degrees to turn outbound and get established. then an outbout altitude would be depicted on the iap. THEN you would perform the procedure turn that is depicted.
05-29-2009, 10:08 AM
#4
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
If there is no PT charted (not sure I have ever seen that) you would need to ask ATC which side to turn on...if it was not charted, there might be a good reason for that.
Does that add anything to the conversation?
05-29-2009, 10:13 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by sellener
Where do I find in the Regs or AC's what procedure to use to establish myself outbound on the approach?
(* except maybe for 91.175 that tells you to look at the approach chart)
Am I misunderstanding the question?
05-29-2009, 10:14 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by block30
We have an ILS here that has no PT barb. The holding pattern isn't in bold, so per the approach plate book legend, it's not meant to be a hold in lieu of PT. When we're IFR here, we always get vectored onto course.
Does that add anything to the conversation?
Does that add anything to the conversation?
05-29-2009, 10:18 AM
#7
Bracing for Fallacies
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See the missed approach course for the VOR 36. The TERPsters (approach designers) have surveyed that routing. That's your best bet coming straight up from the south, needing to turn south again for the PT.
As 250 said, maintain what ATC tells you, or the feeder route altitude until established, meaning stablized within 3/4 scale deflection of the needle, on the south radial heading out for the PT. Then you can descend to the PT altitude.
If in doubt about obstructions/terrain see also the MSA or ask ATC for the minimum vectoring altitude in the vicinity of the VOR. But once more---stay high until established on that radial outbound for the PT.
Best,
As 250 said, maintain what ATC tells you, or the feeder route altitude until established, meaning stablized within 3/4 scale deflection of the needle, on the south radial heading out for the PT. Then you can descend to the PT altitude.
If in doubt about obstructions/terrain see also the MSA or ask ATC for the minimum vectoring altitude in the vicinity of the VOR. But once more---stay high until established on that radial outbound for the PT.
Best,
05-29-2009, 11:57 AM
#8
pants on the ground
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there was something that aopa published with this kinda of question. i will try to find it and put the link up. look at the chart as others stated.
a side question.
does anyone use that acronym S.H.A.R.P.T.T when a course reversal is needed?
a side question.
does anyone use that acronym S.H.A.R.P.T.T when a course reversal is needed?
05-29-2009, 02:42 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
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clarification
Look at the approach plate...now there's an idea! ...... LOL
Just to clarify and so we are talking about the same thing. Look at KSAW VOR 1.
Suppose I filed to the SAW VOR. I am approaching from the south on V133 SAW r165 I believe. I am flying the full procedure because ATC is out to lunch or radar is broken. I have been cleared for the approach.
When I get to the VOR what do I do, and where can I find the literature to support my actions.
In reality, I would reference the MSA and stay above it untill on a published portion of the approach. Then I would fly over the VOR and turn back towards it and establish myself outbound on the approach and fly the rest of the approach with the procedure turn and all.
Just to clarify and so we are talking about the same thing. Look at KSAW VOR 1.
Suppose I filed to the SAW VOR. I am approaching from the south on V133 SAW r165 I believe. I am flying the full procedure because ATC is out to lunch or radar is broken. I have been cleared for the approach.
When I get to the VOR what do I do, and where can I find the literature to support my actions.
In reality, I would reference the MSA and stay above it untill on a published portion of the approach. Then I would fly over the VOR and turn back towards it and establish myself outbound on the approach and fly the rest of the approach with the procedure turn and all.
