This is probably the smartest and easiest way I have heard off. Nice one!

IN A CREW ENVIRONMENT, someone mentioned that both logged IFR time...what about the instrument approach. (this is assuming actual conditions) Can both log the IAP or just the one in control.


TI

 

Stupid question but lets say there is a dense cloud layer at 6,000-8,000ft. Anything above or below those altitudes is clear VFR. I know that as a VFR pilot, I cannot deliberately fly into clouds but what if you are on a IFR flightplan? could you request those altitudes and log some actual instrument flight time since you wouldn't be able to see anything? would that even be legal?

 

Of course you can... filing to stay in the clouds is perfectly legal and a great way to get more comfortable with actual IFR conditions.

 

Sure, I used to do it with students all the time.



As far as logging instrument time for employment purposes....

While it makes sense that dark-night-over-water or other no-horizon conditions should be loggable, not everyone in aviation sees it that way. The gold-standard for instrument time is visible moisture...

Generally, an employer will expect you to have about 10% of your total time as actual. If you have much more than that, they might poke around your logbook and ask you why.

There might be a perfectly legit explanation (Wx in your geographic area), but if you claim non-traditional instrument time, you might get sent packing at an interview. It also not unheard of for an interviewer to pull up old Area Forecast if you log suspicious instrument time. If you logged instrument time on a night flight from PSP-PHX based on night-over-desert but the AF said Severe Clear, you will be in trouble.

For the military guys, the airlines will not consider it misrepresentation if you follow military rules and traditions when logging time...as long as all the other military folks do it the same way. But read their requirements carefully, you will probably have to make some adjustments to your times when filling out airline apps.

 

I once talked to a pilot with 5000 TT and 2500 instrument time!

He logged all time on an IFR flight plan as instrument, even when in CAVU conditions.

Because of FAR 61.51, this was obviously a troubling part of his logbook.

 

If you are SIC on an airplane...you can't log actual when the PIC is flying however if you are the PIC, then you can log actual when the SIC is flying.

In my case, I only log the time that I am flying in the clouds regardless of what seat I am in.

 

If you are a required SIC then you can log all instrument time wether you or the boss is flying. A required SIC is either required by the airplane type, or the company opspecs requires two pilots which is common for new 135 companies which need to wait 6 months to get the "autopilot in lieu of SIC" authorization.

 

In my experience it has always been "tribal knowledge" that a PNF SIC does not log IMC. Do you have a reference for that?

 

Cant find an "official" reference. I was told this by two different chief pilots and everyone in my company logs instrument whether there PF or PNF. The only reference i can find which is by far not official is "everything explained for the professional pilot" by Richie Lengel. Anyone else on the forum whats your opinion?

 

From the FAA Chief Counsel's Office:

Thank you for your letter of January 25, 1999, in which you ask questions about logging pilot in command (PIC) time and second in command (SIC) time when operating under Part 121 of the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR)

You first ask whether it would be proper under FAR 61.51(g) for a properly qualified SIC to log instrument flight time flown during instrument conditions while serving as the SIC in Part 121 operations on an aircraft that requires two crewmembers. The answer is yes. As a qualified SIC, and as a required crewmember, you are "operating" the aircraft within the meaning of FAR 61.51(g). Therefore, as the SIC operating the aircraft "solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions," you would log that time as SIC flown in instrument conditions. Naturally, the PIC logs the time as PIC flown in instrument conditions.

You then ask if, for the purposes of maintaining instrument currency, an instrument approach on the above flight flown by the PIC can be logged as an instrument approach by the SIC. The answer is no. As the SIC you have not "performed" the approach as contemplated by FAR 61.57(c) because you were not the sole manipulator of the controls during the approach.