The easy way to never find out is if you don't bend metal. That's usually the only reason they come looking.

I will refrain from posting any other feelings about FSDO's, because I could type all day!

 

If the training is for a BFR and you are logging dual, then that person is a "student" in my mind. I just demonstrated spins today during a BFR. The guy made to 400 hours without ever spinning, so I decided to change that for the better since we were in a 152.

 

Question for Noy, or an expert on FAA admin law.

I was challenged recently for giving my students a short spin awareness module including some real spins without wearing parachutes. They were all willing participants after I brought out a big stick (kidding), and all expressed satisfaction in learning about it. However, there are die hard believers that parachutes are required and parachute-less non-CFI spin training is not covered under AC 61-67C (Paragraph 301)(b), or FAR 91.307 (d).

Is there an FAA Chief Counsel statement out there on this? I am tired of the same haggard challenge every time. The FARs themselves are not good enough for this group.

 

I had to demonstrate a spin during my CFI checkride. Upon my demo the FAA examiner did 3 spins and really stressed the importance of teaching people how to enter and recover from spins. He said the general aviation community is afraid of them and of course there is nothing scary about a spin. The only scary thing about spins is once you inadvertently get into one in the infamous overshot base to final turn. He is also an accident investigator so it wasn't a surprise to hear it coming from him. I actually raised the concern about having parachutes. He said he was "pretty sure" that teaching spins does not require parachutes. Of course I will have to look more into this and I'd imagine I would have to check with FBO management prior to demonstrating spins to my students. Either way I had never gained an exponential amount of confidence in my 270 hours of flying upon being able to successfully enter and recover a spin. IMO it is an integral and a much valuable aspect of flight training.

 

Thanks Pearl. I really like the things you say about your CFI examiner, it makes me feel like he or she was really good to you. You can tell how much advanced pilots love the art and science of flying. They became leaders by their long-term dedication to the piloting discipline and most of them are truly in love with it. The one guy that wasn't all that good got kicked out long ago (kidding).

Noy- I really would really appreciate it if you would take a minute and see if FAA Chief Counsel has published anything on this topic. If not I would be surprised, and you are in the right position to look. If there is anything available it will tend to facilitate spin training on the routine side of flight training, instructors like you and me. I think the statement about Pearl's examiner saying the flight training community is afraid of spin training is very true. We need to be liberated on this topic so we can do the training without fear. It's not a big deal as far as safety is concerned, perfectly safe. Freedom from ambiguous admin laws would result in more spin awareness for many student pilots. That would save lives down the road and make GA safer. I think the figure now is around 10% of all GA accidents are from stall-spin mishaps.