When do you actually use SVFR?
03-29-2010, 07:51 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Private Pilot
Posts: 53
When do you actually use SVFR?
In what situations would you actually fly a SVFR departure? I don't have much experience flying in really scuzzy weather but I'm wary enough about it to want to avoid it.
03-29-2010, 08:25 PM
#2
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Posts: 2,633
Originally Posted by NoseUpAttitude
In what situations would you actually fly a SVFR departure? I don't have much experience flying in really scuzzy weather but I'm wary enough about it to want to avoid it.
03-29-2010, 08:26 PM
#3
Does NOT get weekends off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: ERJ - 145
Posts: 1,631
Special VFR can be used a few different ways.
If ATC allows, you can get a special VFR to depart an airport when the weather is less than VFR. Why would you want to do this? Suppose there is a solid wall of fog right at the airport and you just happen to be on the wrong side but just a few miles past the airport it goes to extreme clear (I've seen it and it's not TOO uncommon). You can special VFR it out of the airport to get to class G airspace where you are then legally allowed in lower airspace until you get to the clear air.
The other option was I used to fly out of a field with no instrument approaches but there was a class D just 7 miles away and I flew that route between the two constantly so I was very aware of the route. I even had a radial to follow. I knew the landmarks very well. So many times when coming home, I would file to the class D, shoot the approach, cancel IFR, then proceed visually to the destination airport. A few times I would have to request a special VFR to get out of the airspace and get to my destination.
However, since you are a student pilot I would be failing as a CFI if I didn't offer some warning. Special VFR means you will be flying when visibility is less than 3 miles. At 120 kts, that gives you a minute and a half to see and avoid obstacles at MOST. 2 miles you have less than a minute! First of all, as a student, I thought I was in IFR the first time I saw visibility less than 10 miles. As a student, you should see what lower visibilities look like and you realize how little there is at 3 miles.
But most important, I personally would never fly SVFR in an area I have not extensively flown VFR in (like my training airport). It's just too low and close to the ground for my liking.
Clear as mud?
If ATC allows, you can get a special VFR to depart an airport when the weather is less than VFR. Why would you want to do this? Suppose there is a solid wall of fog right at the airport and you just happen to be on the wrong side but just a few miles past the airport it goes to extreme clear (I've seen it and it's not TOO uncommon). You can special VFR it out of the airport to get to class G airspace where you are then legally allowed in lower airspace until you get to the clear air.
The other option was I used to fly out of a field with no instrument approaches but there was a class D just 7 miles away and I flew that route between the two constantly so I was very aware of the route. I even had a radial to follow. I knew the landmarks very well. So many times when coming home, I would file to the class D, shoot the approach, cancel IFR, then proceed visually to the destination airport. A few times I would have to request a special VFR to get out of the airspace and get to my destination.
However, since you are a student pilot I would be failing as a CFI if I didn't offer some warning. Special VFR means you will be flying when visibility is less than 3 miles. At 120 kts, that gives you a minute and a half to see and avoid obstacles at MOST. 2 miles you have less than a minute! First of all, as a student, I thought I was in IFR the first time I saw visibility less than 10 miles. As a student, you should see what lower visibilities look like and you realize how little there is at 3 miles.
But most important, I personally would never fly SVFR in an area I have not extensively flown VFR in (like my training airport). It's just too low and close to the ground for my liking.
Clear as mud?
03-29-2010, 08:42 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 327
Personally, and as a CFII, I would caution against using SVFR as a means to depart an airport being enveloped by fog. And I wouldn't use it to file to one airport, cancel, then scud-run 7 miles to home base.
Its hard to justify a SVFR at all. Yes, perhaps medevac flights or traffic watch. But really, not very useful for the most part. Go VFR or go IFR. At least thats the way I see it.
Its hard to justify a SVFR at all. Yes, perhaps medevac flights or traffic watch. But really, not very useful for the most part. Go VFR or go IFR. At least thats the way I see it.
03-30-2010, 02:20 AM
#7
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As an first officer I used special VFR quite a bit in the state of Alaska at a towered airport that was was not in radar coverage. Often there would be 15-30 miutes delay to wait for your IFR departure or arrival clearance, when special VFR got you out or in a little faster. And the airports we served from that airport were not equipped with instrument approaches anyway.
That being said, even though I was in a instrument eqiupped, two crew aircraft where both pilots were familar with the terrain, I had a few experiences I would care not to repeat in SVFR conditions. The crap can really hit the fan quick... I learned enough from those experiences that when I became captain, I never used SVFR again. I took the extra gas picked up my IFR clearance and waited patiently so that I could have a nice margin of safety in my departure or arrival. IMHO flying low in reduced visibility conditions is asking for trouble, especially if you decide to make it a regular occurence or are not instrument rated.
That being said, even though I was in a instrument eqiupped, two crew aircraft where both pilots were familar with the terrain, I had a few experiences I would care not to repeat in SVFR conditions. The crap can really hit the fan quick... I learned enough from those experiences that when I became captain, I never used SVFR again. I took the extra gas picked up my IFR clearance and waited patiently so that I could have a nice margin of safety in my departure or arrival. IMHO flying low in reduced visibility conditions is asking for trouble, especially if you decide to make it a regular occurence or are not instrument rated.
03-30-2010, 05:21 AM
#8
Flying Farmer
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Turbo-props' and John Deere's
Posts: 3,160
I use it when we have a light morning fog and it's burning off, but not quite "VFR" conditions yet. I've been driving in, and can see the sun, but not at the airport.
When I was at Purdue, the river surrounds the airport and most mornings in the fall were horrible, but it would be CAVU by 9-10. You could easily depart to the north when it was "1-2sm" and instantly be severe clear. We couldn't use it though.
My current job, I do a lot of test flights on planes coming out of Annual or Avionics work. Depending on the scenario and type of aircraft, I will occasionally use SVFR to get out and do what I need to do.
So in conclusion, SVFR should be used by someone that
A. Is extremely familiar with the airspace and surrounding terrian/obstacles
B. Knows the weather is improving
C. Has actual instrument time and experience(this is a just incase it's worse than reported)
When I was at Purdue, the river surrounds the airport and most mornings in the fall were horrible, but it would be CAVU by 9-10. You could easily depart to the north when it was "1-2sm" and instantly be severe clear. We couldn't use it though.
My current job, I do a lot of test flights on planes coming out of Annual or Avionics work. Depending on the scenario and type of aircraft, I will occasionally use SVFR to get out and do what I need to do.
So in conclusion, SVFR should be used by someone that
A. Is extremely familiar with the airspace and surrounding terrian/obstacles
B. Knows the weather is improving
C. Has actual instrument time and experience(this is a just incase it's worse than reported)
03-30-2010, 06:19 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Supine
Posts: 251
I used to do special all the time in the 207's up in Alaska. A 207 wasn't legal to carry passengers under IFR so it was get a special or make no money. We would even share specials with other aircraft to either get in or get out. All aircraft would have to concur to share the clearance with the other aircraft and the frequency could get busy with everyone saying, "I concur," over and over.
When I first got up there I didn't think I would ever be doing that, but after a while you get used to the local area and the flow of things. If one of the twins went IFR, then everyone else would be waiting either on the ground or holding outside the zone. Sometimes there would be 5 airplanes in VFR holding patterns. Sometimes we would join up and follow each other around the race track in the hold. Then when the first guy got cleared in, we could share the clearance and we were all perfectly sequenced behind him. Not something you want to do unless you know the terrain and the other pilots flying around you.
When I first got up there I didn't think I would ever be doing that, but after a while you get used to the local area and the flow of things. If one of the twins went IFR, then everyone else would be waiting either on the ground or holding outside the zone. Sometimes there would be 5 airplanes in VFR holding patterns. Sometimes we would join up and follow each other around the race track in the hold. Then when the first guy got cleared in, we could share the clearance and we were all perfectly sequenced behind him. Not something you want to do unless you know the terrain and the other pilots flying around you.
