MD11

I have a primary student with approx 17 hours of dual that still cannot land the aircraft (172sp). I have tried various techniques for visual cues and tactile control of the aircraft, to no avail. Maninly the problem seems to be inconsistencies in everything he does. For instance yesterday when checking the flight instruments (AS, ADI, ALT, TB, DG, VSI) he reached up and set the #1 vor obs to the current compass heading. This is th etype of inconsistencies that continually occur. After, 20 or soi flights, he still has trouble understanding the difference between the tuning and active window of the comm and navs. Also, the difference between comm and nav itself. I have spent much of my time teaching before and after flights on radio ops.... this is the first time I have had a student like this. Any suggestions? Maybe John and Martha are wrong... maybe not everybody can learn to fly. I don't know.
My student is approx 59 years and VERY successful at what he does.. banker or somethng like that.

chignutsak

Are you more worried about the radios or his landings? One step at a time. Let him concentrate on landings while you do the radios. Once he masters one thing, his confidence will increase and make him more open to learning other things. If all else fails, have you tried a different CFI? Sometimes a fresh perspective can get the ball rolling.

MD11

More concerned with landing the aircraft. I brought the radios up as an example of a possible retention issue. Also, I handle the radios while he is in the high workload mode.
As for the radios, he was particularly interested in their operation early on in his training. I am not one to say "don't worry about that now..".
Yes I am referring him to another instructor to see if that yields any benefit. Has anyone else had a student like this that continued and was able to earn their ppl?

rickair7777

This may be part of the issue...this type of individual is usually very good at organizing and manipulating people. The most important factor in their success is that people THINK they are doing the right things, and they are very adept at giving that impression. It is not so important that they actually DO the right things, as long as everyone thinks they did.

Placed into our world, they can have a hard transition...they cannot manipulate or bluff the laws of physics although they may try to fool you (and ATC and whoever else) into thinking they know what they are doing.

Also, those who were at the top rungs of the real-world ladder have difficulty accepting their natural newbie inadequacies in aviation. This makes it that much harder for them to approach flying with the proper attitude.

That fact that he is older doesn't help either, your capacity for learning to fly starts dropping off around age 30 and is very noticeable (for most people) by age 50. Multi-tasking is the biggest challenge, especially for those who did not grow up in the digital age.

First off maybe have a conversation with him to make it clear that any confusion, uncertainty, or lack of knowledge should be addressed with you and not glossed over. He needs to understand that asking questions and admitting weakness is not only encouraged but necessary for a flight student.

Also due to the multi-tasking challenge, definitely approach learning tasks one at a time. Only combine them when they are very solid. With a guy like this you will be doing most of the radios for a long time.

The guy should be made aware that his training is going to take more time and money than average...probably a lot more. It's also possible that he might not make it...there are certainly people who cannot learn to fly. As was mentioned you should also send him up with another CFI just to make sure that the problem is not you, or some communication barrier between you and the student.

Hacker15e

OT, but curious where this number comes from?

esa17

Take a towel and cover up the instrument panel, completely. Everything your student needs to know about landing a 172 happens outside the airplane.

Descent, level off, flare, touchdown.

One they have that down then start adding stuff. With my students I teach them the three keys to landing: airspeed, airspeed, airspeed.

This is why everyone should fly something made in the 40's.

MD11

"This may be part of the issue...this type of individual is usually very good at organizing and manipulating people. The most important factor in their success is that people THINK they are doing the right things, and they are very adept at giving that impression. It is not so important that they actually DO the right things, as long as everyone thinks they did."

On his third lesson he was very frustrated that he couldn't land the aircraft,,, later he admitted that he thought flying was going to be pretty easy,,, he said it looked pretty easy from the ground.

"Take a towel and cover up the instrument panel, completely. Everything your student needs to know about landing a 172 happens outside the airplane."

Yes I have done this but not with a towel... Again, has anybody had one of these student types earn their ppl?

Thanks!

esa17

Yes, a few of them.

What your student is experiencing is a mental block, plain and simple. He's probably not an idiot so he can be taught to land a plane. Since you haven't tried covering the panel completely why not give it a go?

You don't need an ASI to land, it' just helps. Make him practice stalls and slow flight without being able to see the airspeed indicator so that he actually gets the feel for what a stall is instead of watching a green or white arc.

There is something your student isn't getting, it's your job to find out what that is or pass him off to another instructor. It might not be something you're failing to find, it just might be a personality conflict. I've passed off a few students who went on to find success with other instructors. Remember this is about teaching people to fly, not padding your ego. There is nothing wrong with passing the guy off.

MD11

I would really hope that I am not padding my ego... anyway thanks for all of the input from everybody... He'll be flying next week with a new CFI and I hope he can make some progress.

airventure

I've had a gentleman similar to this.

How often is he flying? My guy only flew on weekends which compounded the problem. He was also a sharp guy, successful in his career, musician, etc. Despite a lot of coaching he didn't seem to progress as she should. After his stint of solo work, we started reviewing pretty hard. I'd ask him to perform a soft field takeoff and not only would he not know how to do it, after I walked him through it he said he's never done anything like that before. We certainly have before, dozens of times. Towards the end he got pretty defensive, he started not wanting to fly and cancelling. I know money was tight with him. He had two kids entering college. He cited that as why he wasn't showing up.