Raiderpilotmt,

Lots of info so far, but in regards to your question of whether to use published holds on approach charts, refer to AIM 5-3-7, specifically the note.

5-3-7. Holding

a. Whenever an aircraft is cleared to a fix other than the destination airport and delay is expected, it is the responsibility of the ATC controller to issue complete holding instructions (unless the pattern is charted), an EFC time and best estimate of any additional en route/terminal delay.

NOTE-
Only those holding patterns depicted on U.S. government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low/high altitude enroute, and area or STAR charts should be used.

b. If the holding pattern is charted and the controller doesn't issue complete holding instructions, the pilot is expected to hold as depicted on the appropriate chart. When the pattern is charted, the controller may omit all holding instructions except the charted holding direction and the statement AS PUBLISHED; e.g., HOLD EAST AS PUBLISHED. Controllers shall always issue complete holding instructions when pilots request them.

c. If no holding pattern is charted and holding instructions have not been issued, the pilot should ask ATC for holding instructions prior to reaching the fix. This procedure will eliminate the possibility of an aircraft entering a holding pattern other than that desired by ATC. If unable to obtain holding instructions prior to reaching the fix (due to frequency congestion, stuck microphone, etc.), then enter a standard pattern on the course on which the aircraft approached the fix and request further clearance as soon as possible. In this event, the altitude/flight level of the aircraft at the clearance limit will be protected so that separation will be provided as required.

gary

 

I did some spin training with Bill Kershner in his Aerobat many moons ago. The guy WAS an aerodynamics wiz and had tons of obscure trivia tucked away. He'd throw all that out during the brief and then just grin ear to ear as he demonstrated a 15 turn "fully developed" spin with an 8500+ fpm descent rate. Good times. He passed on a few years back and is missed.

Oops, sorry for the thread drift - back to lost comm procedures.

 

FAA Order 7110.65T, paragraph 4-6-1

PHRASEOLOGYCLEARED
TO (fix), HOLD (direction), AS PUBLISHED,
or
CLEARED TO (fix), NO DELAY EXPECTED.
c. EFC. Do not specify this item if no delay is
expected.

 

GHOGUE, you hit the nail on the head, All of this talk, and All I wanted to know was that one paragraph

"NOTE-
Only those holding patterns depicted on U.S. government or commercially produced (meeting FAA requirements) low/high altitude enroute, and area or STAR charts should be used."

.....So if you are cleared to a fix that is related to an approach, and you see a published hold on the approach plate, but it is not your destination, you do not use that hold. However, if u lost comms, and arrived to your IAF at your destination, you would hold as published on the approach plate until your ETA!!!!

 

Great post. A few years ago Catherine Cavganaro, the lady instructor who inherited Bill Kerschners school did a 60-turn spin in the same airplane to show it can be done.

Cavganero C152 spin

There is an Aviation Medical Examiner & Designated Pilot Examiner in Wichita who does pretty much the same thing, and he has the engineering background to go with it. I am going to take his course at some point. You can do a lot with an Aerobat as long as you manage your g's effectively.

 

This doesn't seem that difficult to me. The NOTE that you quote is specific to the paragraph that is it associated with. It doesn't mean that every time you're cleared to a fix, you dig out approach plates to see if there's a published approach.

But, overall, I agree with your conclusion. Hold as published, if the fix is your destination airport approach. Otherwise, do not.