Std Deviation

The big thing is how frequently the thing is flying. I've seen engines 500 hrs since overhaul that have been sitting idle for five years and quit within 50 hrs and I purchased a C172 for my flight school 200 hrs from TBO that we put 600 more hours on with no problems whatsoever (flying 80 hrs a month). Standard calculated assumption is that an aircraft will fly 40 hrs a month since production. So you need to multiply out when the engine should have been overhauled from a time standpoint when calculating value as well.

Std Deviation

Major misnomer. This is where most go wrong when determining operating cost. In addition to fuel calculate engine overhaul, annual inspection, preventative mx, tires, 50 hour oil changes, hangar fees, and insurance into your hourly cost. These can be computed hourly. Then you "bank" that money so you're not looking at calling everyone and asking them to ante up $100 when the alternator/vacuum pump/starter, radio, etc. goes bad. A C152 is going to be closer to 55-60/hr to operate. This is how flying clubs work...you charge the 60/hr and put the cash into the appropriate reserve accounts.

DALFA

I'm looking for a plane simply for time building, I don't plan on taking anyone with me. I can rent a 172 if needed.

Buying a 172 would do me no good except waste more gas.

Btw...i'm 240 pounds.

JamesNoBrakes

If you want to have a good idea of the cost of ownership, assuming you fly it at least semi-regularly, take the cost of the rental for the same plane (same condition, same equipment, same year, etc) and take off about $5. That's close to what it will cost you to own it, make the payments, pay for the maint, fix a few little things that may break, and so on. FBOs aren't raking in $40 of a $140 rental, except in some rare cases of overcharging, which is pretty transparent. When I've ran the numbers, it comes out just slightly cheaper than renting. Fly it less, and the cost per hour goes up, so it's in your best interest to use it. That's where it usually falls very short, you were only planning to put a bit of time on it, and spread it out. That's fine, but it means your cost per hour is likely very high and it's just sitting there doing nothing. Consider this very carefully.

DALFA

If you look at my original post you will see that I said we'd all pay about $100-$120 per month in fees to include things such as maintenance items and costs to tie down the plane. With 4 people paying $120 per month...that's $500 per month, $6,000 per year which should be plenty.

Std Deviation

You're talking about fixed costs - tie down, insurance. Each hour you fly that aircraft equates to an hourly depreciation in terms of hull, avionics, engine, etc. You need an hourly and a monthly. How do successful flying clubs do it? Model them. Your insurance will now be higher because you're operating a flying club. James has got it right. Those "expensive" rentals out there are not laughing all the way to the bank.

Is the plan to sell the aircraft after everyone has accumulated the time? If so how will you handle that? To whom is the aircraft titled - individual, LLC, etc?? The best money you can spend at this point would be to get a good lawyer to draft the agreement. If I land off airport and my passenger is injured that person will not only sue me but whoever else is involved. Here's another one - When that aircraft comes back into your home state you may get a bill from the State for use tax. It depends on the state. Surprise! Here's $1500 you owe us just to use your airplane here (since you paid sales tax to that other state). Don't forget to account for that.

I am NOT trying to be a jerk as all you want to do is own an aircraft to build time! But I've seen many people get in serious trouble by not considering a few items upfront. I've got no dog in this race or commercial interest but would be happy to chat with you if you wish. Just send a PM.

El Pilot

Hey I'm from NYC area and I'm interested. I would recommend Central Jersey airport, has cheap tie downs. Also, would you accept "Pay as you go Time Builders?"

Std Deviation

That makes it a rental operation. Now you're in a very different category...

DALFA

At this point I think I would just like to find 3-4 others in my same boat and then meet face to face and discuss all of this and come up with a plan that works for everyone.

Since we're talking about a 150 or 152...chances are you're not taking anyone anywhere since most of the time you're over MTOW with 2 adults and decent fuel.

All the legal stuff is something that needs to be discussed and i've been reading up some info on the AOPA website, i'm sure they'd be willing to answer questions once we got a group together.

piperpusher

DALFA, I hate to rain on your parade man, but Std Dev is exactly right. An airplane is going to separate you from your money faster than one of the pros that hang out at Dusk Till Dawn in HK.

My advice is just find a good flight school that rents a 150/152 on the cheap. Unless you're going to put many 100's of hours on this bird it's not worth it.

Aside from all the issues of buying an airplane in the first place, partnerships like this have a tendency to go south real quick. When it comes to buying planes as a partnership, don't even think about it unless you could afford the whole thing yourself if you had to. As reliable as you may think your partners are, the world can change faster than most people can cope with. An airplane is great when you have the money, but when that disposable income dries up its just big stack of bills with your name written on them. I've seen partners bail out for financial reasons time and time again. The rest of the group is left with their pants around their ankles, broke, and confused.

Instead of buying and airplane to build time, hit up some flight training and build time while you earn some of those ratings! You'll spend less money and get a lot more out of it. For the 10 grand each of the partners is going to end up spending you could easily get your instrument and have a hefty chunk left over to start commercial.

Unless you're just rolling in money buying a plane is a bad move my friend. As my mentor in aviation once said; "If it floats, flies, or f$%$s, rent it!"