Cheating on ILS
11-30-2012, 03:30 PM
#21
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
he is NOT a good stick or he could fly a freaking ILS.... I disagree with Cub driver... crack down or show him the door. EVERYONE IS not cut out for this business.
11-30-2012, 04:02 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 777 Cap
Posts: 89
20+ years ago I had a few "lazy and weak" students. Firm and bold honesty solved the problems. USMC's statement about needing the ability to communicate to other crewmembers makes a good leader and Captain. Do yourself and the student a favor and have the talk. If they don't like it, they can shop for a new CFI. I dam sure don't want an F/O who is afraid to speak up if I'm screwing up. Do the profession a favor and own up to it, it is your job after all.
Cheers.
Cheers.
11-30-2012, 04:03 PM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
I think this is a character building issue. At this point we do not know whether he can be a pilot or not, all we know is he cheats in his training.
Yup.
..........
11-30-2012, 04:39 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
one of 2 things are gonna happen to him if he keeps cheating and you sign him off and he passes his practical because he either cheated or got lucky......1. He will crash and kill only himself in actual IMC. 2. He will crash with passengers into a house or school.
Guess who the Feds are gonna ask about his training? and hope they don't see this thread if you sign him off? I'm guessing he also is gonna pencil whip his logbook.
Guess who the Feds are gonna ask about his training? and hope they don't see this thread if you sign him off? I'm guessing he also is gonna pencil whip his logbook.
11-30-2012, 04:39 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
Originally Posted by Take Priority
20+ years ago I had a few "lazy and weak" students. Firm and bold honesty solved the problems. USMC's statement about needing the ability to communicate to other crewmembers makes a good leader and Captain. Do yourself and the student a favor and have the talk. If they don't like it, they can shop for a new CFI. I dam sure don't want an F/O who is afraid to speak up if I'm screwing up. Do the profession a favor and own up to it, it is your job after all.
Cheers.
Cheers.
11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
So may I ask, were you really that good at only 100 hours of total flying time yourself, up to PTS standards all the time, with only one checkride behind you? I think 100 hours is way to early to flip the gate closed on someone who was introduced to flying only a few months prior. Let him fail a checkride or two first, then maybe consider closing some gates. Personally, I think this is a character building issue. At this point we do not know whether he can be a pilot or not, all we know is he cheats in his training.
USMCFLYR
11-30-2012, 05:19 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: the correct seat
Posts: 1,422
My thoughts:
1. Tell him that he's only cheating himself. When he's shooting an approach in actual, there's nothing to be seen outside, no matter how hard he looks.
2. Talk to his dad. Surely an airline pilot can see how stupid the idea of sneaking a peek is.
3. If all else fails, drop him. With some students, you have to mark the line in the sand- either he's gonna stop cheating, or he can find another CFI. How comfortable would you be if you signed him off, and then years later walked onto an airplane and saw him up front?
PS. Def. think it's a good idea to give the examiner a heads up about this student.
1. Tell him that he's only cheating himself. When he's shooting an approach in actual, there's nothing to be seen outside, no matter how hard he looks.
2. Talk to his dad. Surely an airline pilot can see how stupid the idea of sneaking a peek is.
3. If all else fails, drop him. With some students, you have to mark the line in the sand- either he's gonna stop cheating, or he can find another CFI. How comfortable would you be if you signed him off, and then years later walked onto an airplane and saw him up front?
PS. Def. think it's a good idea to give the examiner a heads up about this student.
11-30-2012, 05:22 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CL-65 captain
Posts: 2,244
Originally Posted by PearlPilot
I consider myself a professional and if I don't speak up I am only doing harm to myself. I am just "spoiled" by a bunch of good students, but the reality is obviously I will meet all kids both as a CFI and hopefully in the future as an F/O...
it doesn't stop at FO...you meet all kinds as a CA too...just when you thought you've seen it all...
11-30-2012, 05:22 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: the correct seat
Posts: 1,422
Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
And at the same time, should he be called a "good stick" with such limited experience?
USMCFLYR
USMCFLYR
After a while, it's pretty easy to tell.
That said, he may be a good stick, but is obviously a **** poor pilot. There's more to it than just being a good stick, and it sounds like this guy doesn't have the rest of it.
11-30-2012, 05:54 PM
#30
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
Gentlemen, I truly appreciate your comments. I am in the process of reading The Right Stuff by Tom Wolf. Here is a direct quotation. I was reading this sentence and realized the importance of taking a stance. "There were key moments in a military career when a man had to assume leadership. That was the essence of true leadership caliber, and surely that fact would be appreciated...by others who would hear about it..."
Thus far my aviation career has been a very great experience for lack of better words. I want to be in the makings of the group of pilots with "the right stuff". I promise you gents, I will have the talk. If things do not work out, I will fire him.
Thus far my aviation career has been a very great experience for lack of better words. I want to be in the makings of the group of pilots with "the right stuff". I promise you gents, I will have the talk. If things do not work out, I will fire him.
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