ILS Training
02-18-2009 | 11:41 AM
#1
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ILS Training
I am currently the training officer for a small 135 outfit in North Texas. We recently finished a recurrent training course for all of our pilots. During the course of the training I was explaining how to identify the final approach fix on an ILS:
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
02-18-2009 | 11:55 AM
#2
Gets Off
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From: On Top
I am currently the training officer for a small 135 outfit in North Texas. We recently finished a recurrent training course for all of our pilots. During the course of the training I was explaining how to identify the final approach fix on an ILS:
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
02-18-2009 | 11:59 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: SkyWest Capt.
I am currently the training officer for a small 135 outfit in North Texas. We recently finished a recurrent training course for all of our pilots. During the course of the training I was explaining how to identify the final approach fix on an ILS:
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
Final approach fix=glide slope intercept at the published altitude on the approach plate (lightning bolt)
One of our pilots insists that the FAF on the ILS is glide slope intercept no matter what your altitude, in other words if you intercept the glideslope 20 miles out at 5000 feet, that is your final approach fix.
He also insists that this is the way he was taught at two of his previous employers, one of them being American Eagle.
Is this how American Eagle and other airlines, regional or otherwise, teach final approach fix on an ILS?
Any comments are welcome,
IJ
02-18-2009 | 12:01 PM
#4
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From: Satan's Camaro
Well, it also depends on the capabilities of the aircraft. If you can't descend on the glideslope and slow down for configuration, then you can indeed start to configure 20 miles out. That being said, if you slow to your final approach speed at 20 miles out, you will absolutely guaranteed get torn a new one by ATC.
02-18-2009 | 12:18 PM
#6
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From: Seat 0B
No...GS @ GS Int. Alt end of story. That allows the use of time for determining the MAP if you lose GS inside the FAF. If you use an arbitrary intercept altitude to determine the FAF then you cannot use time to determine MAP GS/InOp.
02-18-2009 | 12:21 PM
#7
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I think somebody must not have been paying attention in Eagle ground school
02-18-2009 | 12:31 PM
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From: Spartan
02-18-2009 | 01:03 PM
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This reminds me of an instrument stage check I had. I flew the ILS exactly as published, and intercepted the glideslope at the published intercept altitude.
I passed the checkride, but afterwards my examiner asked me, "why wouldn't you have just intercepted the glideslope at 3,000 since that's where we were when we intercepted the localizer? (glide slope intercept was 2,700). I was confused as to the reason he was asking me... I think I said something like, "because the approach says the GS intercept altitude is 2,700." Then he went off about how you can intercept it from any altitude, and it doesn't say anywhere that you have to be at the GS intercept altitude.
I didn't want to argue with him, especially since I passed, but I thought he was incorrect.
I passed the checkride, but afterwards my examiner asked me, "why wouldn't you have just intercepted the glideslope at 3,000 since that's where we were when we intercepted the localizer? (glide slope intercept was 2,700). I was confused as to the reason he was asking me... I think I said something like, "because the approach says the GS intercept altitude is 2,700." Then he went off about how you can intercept it from any altitude, and it doesn't say anywhere that you have to be at the GS intercept altitude.
I didn't want to argue with him, especially since I passed, but I thought he was incorrect.
02-18-2009 | 01:16 PM
#10
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Here it is cut and dry folks. You may join the glide slope at a higher or even lower altitude then published GS INT altitude. But remember this, you are not inside the final approach fix until passing throught that alt. Why does that matter? Because if the weather falls below mins and youre inside the FAF you may continue. If you are not inside the FAF (above published intercept alt but on GS) and the weather falls below mins you must go missed as by part 121. Any AE pilot would know that. This dude is clueless
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