Are CFI's required for AC checkouts?
12-22-2012, 03:52 PM
#11
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Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by Phxdvt17
Awesome thanks! It's nice to get an explanation without it sounding condescending!
Boy, egos are big in aviation. Usually when any of us practice humility it's because we think we should and we're trying to outperforming others for ego's sake. At least you don't fall into that category.
12-22-2012, 07:12 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by JohnnyG
You mean the answer you wanted to hear? Why is hearing something contrary condescending? I had no intent on sounding condescending whatsoever.
Boy, egos are big in aviation. Usually when any of us practice humility it's because we think we should and we're trying to outperforming others for ego's sake. At least you don't fall into that category.
Boy, egos are big in aviation. Usually when any of us practice humility it's because we think we should and we're trying to outperforming others for ego's sake. At least you don't fall into that category.
Johnny... Uhhh, you're wrong though. This OP was asking about a check out. Anyone can provide a check out, it's not a FAA regulated flight. Rickair said it best.
I'm sorry, but I think you're the one with a hurt ego here, dude.
12-22-2012, 08:34 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
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Originally Posted by JohnnyG
I'm sorry, when did I say anything about when a checkout was required or not?
I said that for someone to offer flight instruction, they need to be a flight instructor. If what I said is not true, then how about a reference saying that flight instruction can be offered from someone who isn't a flight instructor?
I said that for someone to offer flight instruction, they need to be a flight instructor. If what I said is not true, then how about a reference saying that flight instruction can be offered from someone who isn't a flight instructor?
What you said regarding flight instruction is not true. There is no specific words to that effect in the FARs, but the ABSENCE of words to that effect allows non-CFI's to give instruction.
There IS specific language in the FARs stating that instruction towards a cert, rating, etc, etc must be given by a a rated CFI. That further reinforces the fact that anyone can give instruction except in those cases where the FARs specify otherwise.
This is common knowledge and has been for decades. I'm sure there's a published FAA legal opinion on the matter if you want to go look.
12-23-2012, 08:18 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: EMB-145 FO
Posts: 20
To clarify, sure anybody can take a buddy up and let them have the controls and show him a thing or two. BUT, only a current CFI can then have that instruction be put in said friend's logbook as dual received. The buddy with another buddy received flight experience but nothing that can be logged.
And check outs are only required by insurance. No endorsement relevant.
And check outs are only required by insurance. No endorsement relevant.
12-23-2012, 09:16 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by MikeOldham
To clarify, sure anybody can take a buddy up and let them have the controls and show him a thing or two. BUT, only a current CFI can then have that instruction be put in said friend's logbook as dual received. The buddy with another buddy received flight experience but nothing that can be logged.
And check outs are only required by insurance. No endorsement relevant.
And check outs are only required by insurance. No endorsement relevant.
12-26-2012, 09:14 AM
#16
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[QUOTE=MikeOldham;1317580]To clarify, sure anybody can take a buddy up and let them have the controls and show him a thing or two. BUT, only a current CFI can then have that instruction be put in said friend's logbook as dual received. The buddy with another buddy received flight experience but nothing that can be logged.[QUOTE]
Man, I wish I could find the legal reference but this came up years (20+) ago and such time was determined to be non-loggable by either pilot - under the circumstances discussed above. The guy in the left seat can't log time because he is not a pilot and the other guy is not an instructor; the guy in the right seat is a private pilot but is not the sole manipulator of the controls (the other guy is). Hence, the time "vanishes" in that no one can log it given the regs.
I'm almost certain there was an article on this in one of the aviation magazines back in the 90's. Kind of a "wierd issues with the regs" slant. Technically the private pilot would have to deduct the time he allowed his buddy to fly from his total time when logging it in his logbook. Of course, that would never happen but interesting concept nonetheless.
Man, I wish I could find the legal reference but this came up years (20+) ago and such time was determined to be non-loggable by either pilot - under the circumstances discussed above. The guy in the left seat can't log time because he is not a pilot and the other guy is not an instructor; the guy in the right seat is a private pilot but is not the sole manipulator of the controls (the other guy is). Hence, the time "vanishes" in that no one can log it given the regs.
I'm almost certain there was an article on this in one of the aviation magazines back in the 90's. Kind of a "wierd issues with the regs" slant. Technically the private pilot would have to deduct the time he allowed his buddy to fly from his total time when logging it in his logbook. Of course, that would never happen but interesting concept nonetheless.
12-26-2012, 09:17 AM
#17
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Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
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Originally Posted by RunnerMark
that no one is just going to let some schmuck walk in to a FBO and say, "I'd like to fly that airplane, please, I am a private pilot."
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