I've never understood the 'personality' aspect of military service.

-LAFF

 

Neither did I but I've heard the arguement before. I think some people can't deal with not being in charge

 

I am comparing apples to apples. You keep mixing data in attempts of proving to yourself that you are correct.

What I am saying that if all variables were equal and you were to be given or financed through a loan the amount required for a four year college education and pilot training (150K) you would be much better off (financially) to place the money into a stable investment.

I use minimum wage as a comparison since it is easily attainable and good to use as a baseline. Now if you were to strive for a higher position like union construction worker it would blow the college + aviation option totally out of the water.

My mathematics prove that it is very difficult for a flying career to justify the cost of training and education. At best it will take most of 20 years to reach a break even point. One must expect to be hired on at one of the few remaining good airlines while in their 30's in order to have much hope at all.

It seems to me that most discipline choices one can make in college are financially a loosing proposition. We have a group of friends with whom we socialize with. The poorest of the bunch are the highest educated. The richest owns a small three man asphalt paving company. He never completed high school.

I know that my ideas are old fashioned but when my generation started out we all expected to earn a better incomes than if we had not made the effort. The younger set I understand flies for the simple joy of it. I can not even begin to assess a value to that, but I hope it is worth it to you.

SKyHigh

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:America_Income.jpg

Explain how higher education isn't beneficial? Also, I will give you that in a select number of cases, it is possible for a high school drop out to make more than a college graduate. More often then not, this is not the case as depicted by the graph. How much does you "friend" make per year and how can you associate one case of success with the United States general population?

Sorry you’re so bitter about your career choice but to go and say that higher education isn’t beneficial does not make any sense.

Illini

 

I will concede to you that the income data supports your position but it fails to tell the entire story.

Those who have made the effort to accomplish a four year degree have the self determination and drive to be a higher achiever than most but it dose not mean that the same education is responsible for the increased income. In fact the majority of self-made millionaires and small business owners have a high school education or less. Of my college friends the most the well off returned to technical labor jobs after failing at their intended fantasy college profession and are now doing very well. The statistics would say that since they are college educated they owe their success to the degree when in fact that is not the case. They owe it to the drive to rise to a higher station in life. A college education set them back by 4 years and nearly 100K.

I believe that college handicaps one for success in life. Most leave after wasting years developing skills like excessive alcohol consumption and copulation with strangers. Success in college ill prepares one for success in the real world. I saw a documentary last month that professed the same ideas. The premise was that the over education of America has lead to a glut of college educated invalids who, in order to save face, will accept an interesting sounding job at a discounted income.

In summary; pay and benifits are going up for someone who knows how to replace a toilet and is decreasing for highly trained professionals like airline pilots.

When we began this discussion it was in regards to careers in aviation. The data you presented was in relation to those with real jobs. A pilot career wouldn't even register on that scale. Given that condition I am sure that your findings will match mine.



SkyHigh

 

"I believe that college handicaps one for success in life. Most leave after wasting years developing skills like excessive alcohol consumption and copulation with strangers. Success in college ill prepares one for success in the real world."


Sorry but I disagree, those were the best years of my life. The alcohol and copulation was fun and if I had to do it all over again I would. That usually doesn't define the overall college experience, mainly the first year or two. BTW saying that success in college ill prepares one for success in the real world is bullsh!t. Those who succeed in college dont waste the years drinking away. Overall , college grades make more in their lifetime then high school grads. Aviation may be unstable, but having a degree you can fall back is a wise investment. You can lose that house you invested all your money on, property value can drop. Just because you have people living on rent doesn't mean they always pay up, and when they dont it can cost money (legal fees) to get your money back. You can lose your pilots license or medical as well. If you have that college education to fall back on, nobody can ever take that away from you.

 

You are right they can't take your education away and as far as I know you can't erase a student loan through bankruptcy either. I am glad you enjoyed your four year vacation. I don't know what you studied but I am sure that History or graphic arts degree will come in handy someday.

A trade is something to fall back on. Degrees fade over time.

SkyHigh

I wish I had my money back.

 

Tell that to all the machinists, engineers, operators and tradesmen in the auto industry and steel industry that are currently loosing their jobs to overseas intrests faster than anybody in the airlines. Then, tell them that their trade will allow them to find another job.

If that were the case, there wouldn't be so many laid-off factory workers that were in specialized trades going back to school.

 

I'm actually still working on my degree. It is not a 4 year vacation. Everyone should get out once in a while and have fun, that doesn't mean you don't study. I'm studying business admin. College is an experience and a great one at that. You learn a lot and I enjoy that process of learning. If you regret going through that process, then the problem is within yourself. It is what you make of it. It seems like you have nothing but regrets. It sounds more like you are the failure, not the education system. With an attitude like that, you wont get far in any field.

 

After college I began to ask myself "why is it that my college peers and I are struggling while my high school buddies who went strait to work were all home owners and were doing well". The promises of a college education is mostly a lie when it comes to prosperity. It isn't the education but the determination and capability of the individual that makes the difference.

A college trained mind is full of invisible walls. It is a handicap in my estimation. The skills and rules that comprise a successful student are not the same as what is required to make it big outside of the school system. Throughout my day I took note of all the people who I ran across that have degrees that are not being used for anything.

Believe me it was a bitter pill to discover that as a college grad I was worth less than someone who was willing to preform real work. Our expectations are raised to incredible heights only to be dashed when the reality hits that you are 50K or more in debt to career training that pays less than a mailman.

Today in fact I learned that the guy who shoes my hoses has a masters degree in biology. The next time you are at one of those big book store chains ask the clerk what their degree is in. Most likely a doctor of English is stuffing plastic bags with your purchases at minimum wage.

SkyHigh