Orangemx

Okay, I know that this has been talked about many times on this forum however, I guess I need some more advice or comments.

I have been in school for 6 years with only a few very short breaks. I spent 18 months in vocational school earning an A&P certificate then went to community college to get my associates degree. I then went to a 4 year college to attempt to get my bachelors. During this time I also earned all of my ratings through CFI and got a MEL and SES added to my commercial ticket.

Due to the fact that I have been so busy flight instructing and that I am completely burned out on school, I recently decided to give up pursuit of the B.S.. The thought of school makes me want to just...well throw up! I have been working my tail off trying to get through it all and I just can't do it anymore. I have experience performing mx on multiple big aircraft such as A319's, A320's, 747's, 727's, and a few DC-10's. I also spent 3 years in the Army (infantry not aviation).

I hear from some that the B.S. is paramount while others say it's more so about the person. My question is did I really shoot myself in the foot by withdrawing? I mean, I hear people say that airline employers look at the 4 year degree as a way of determining the commitment of an individual. I understand that. It takes a lot of discipline to sit through hours of powerpoint presentations, work in group projects, study, and get good grades but, MAN! Haven't I done enough yet?

rickair7777

This comes up a lot, and the answer is always the same...

Regionals will be picky about the degree if the market allows it, but market forces should be in your favor for the forseeable future. If you're in a hurry to get hired at a regional it shouldn't be a problem (especially mesa, lakes, etc).

But the odds of getting to a major without the degree are low, and even if you do it will take longer, costing you wages and seniority.

A few not-so-great majors will hire without the degree, and SWA will hire with a 2-year degree but even then you may need to be connected to get on with SWA.

Airlines will hire a college grad over an ATP every time, unless you want to fly the bush in which case the ATP is almost mandatory.

Orangemx

Well....darn!!!!! I guess I will just have to accept that then. I just can't do anymore school. It's so frustrating though. I mean, the idea of just having the piece of paper stating you went to a 4 year college could carry so much weight. It's even more frustrating to know that the degree didn't make me any smarter and all that work experience, military experience, vocation school and associates is trumped by a bachelors. All I got out of college was thinking critically about information sources, my writing improved a little, and I learned how to work powerpoint and word. Okay, I guess I learned more about bilateral agreements and ICAO.

Whatever, life is good now! I'm fine with the idea of being a lifer at a regional. Then again judging by comments that I see on this forum regularly I may be being a little naïve. Cross that bridge when I get to it I suppose. For right now I'm just going to enjoy seeing peoples face light up when they finally get how to fly the plane.

John Carr

Not to nitpick, but it DOESN'T have to be a B.S, can be a B.A. as well. Sure, someone will argue the merits of a B.S. over a B.A., whatever.......Sorry, but the guy hired with a B.S. ISN'T going to upgrade ANY faster than the B.A. based on the S, ISN'T going to hold a better schedule based on the S, etc etc etc.

The IMPORTANT thing is that there is a 4 year degree to check off the box.

It IS about the person, but that person has to meet the minimum requirements. OR in the case of a degree not requited, have an affiliation/connection that is on an epic scale just to get looked at.

True, it's used as a metric. But the sad truth is, many degrees now days really don't require that much discipline/commitment. That's a topic of discussion for a WHOLE different conversation though. But most colleges anymore, it's simply a matter of 1) Having the financial backing and 2) Showing up the minimum to get through the courses. However, it is speculated (probably true), that for here and now DAL is looking at GPA as a further filter. But do you REALLY think it'll matter from which school it came? Speculative at best

Brace yourself, because that will be a VERY common question throughout your career, depending on how your career goes. There are some guys that were able to take advantage of GREAT timing and right place-right time. Didn't really put in that much time, but were able to get hired and been doing well ever since (hockeypilot, Johnson29, 80ktsClamp, Superpilot92 as examples).

But for every one of those guys, there's EASILY 10+ that HAVEN'T been been so lucky. Upgraded to CA, that enough? Nope, need the PIC time. Got the 1000 TPIC, good enough? Nope, not in this environment. Was able to get another type rating, good enough? Nope, not really. Became an LCA instructor, good enough? Crap, now need to add come kind of volunteer/community service , good enough? Well, getting there.......NOW you're starting to starting to separate yourself from the 10,000+ OTHER applicants in the stack. Of course, a year or two from now you can one by one start to whittle away some of those things.

Never mind the stagnation/regression caused by 9/11, SARS, age 65, recession, etc. There's guys that have been caught in those down cycles.

But the most IMPORTANT thing is this, NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK!!!!!!!!!!!

John Carr

There was a brief time, a VERY brief time when being a "lifer" at a regional wasn't really a bad thing. After upgrading, a 80-100K/yr W2 was doable, especially if living in base and holding a decent schedule, moving up the seniority ladder quickly, etc.

But that time has passed. Take a look at what's happened to COMAIR and ACA just to start with. THEN take a look at what happened to AWAC, THEN look at what's happened to Pinnacle and PSA. There's a trend starting to show. The guys that are able to take advantage of the seniority/longevity at a regional are starting to become more and more scarce. And the things that made being senior at a regional are slowly eroding.

rcfd13

Yet it's impossible to get a major job and has been for some time so most of us have no choice but to try to ride it out for the rest of our careers.

jonnyjetprop

As a 13,000 hr pilot, without a BS degree, who has flown 747, MD-11, DC-10 and DC-8, get your degree.

tomgoodman

True, the degree might only prove that you sat in college for four years, not that you have become educated.
One might as well sit in a garage for four years and expect to become a car.

satpak77

Indeed true. Also true is that a degree is needed. Oh well.

blastoff

Then you should understand your competitive disadvantage. At this stage in hiring, you're up against a large number of military pilots, most from the USAF, Navy, and USMC who are ALL Officers, ALL have a Bachelor's degree and nearly half have a Master's degree. The degree requirement then serves as the attempt by most HR departments to gain an equivalent peer set from the Civilian world. I think the requirement will eventually relax, but I wouldn't sit around waiting.