Something I don't get
12-14-2006 | 07:25 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: Flight Instructor
I wouldnt put ATP in the same category as pilot mill schols (Comair, Flight Safety, RAA) ATP is a lot cheaper. However eI have not seen any schools that cost 100K.
But I do agree that ou can find the same if not better quality training from the local CFI. My CFI has been flight instructing since 1964. Thousands of hours and over 200 solo students. He taught his son to fly all the way up to CFI. His son is currently an FO for a major airline and he never went to a big name flight schol id it all with his Dad then bought a Twin and built time.
But I do agree that ou can find the same if not better quality training from the local CFI. My CFI has been flight instructing since 1964. Thousands of hours and over 200 solo students. He taught his son to fly all the way up to CFI. His son is currently an FO for a major airline and he never went to a big name flight schol id it all with his Dad then bought a Twin and built time.
12-14-2006 | 10:51 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: DHC-6 / PC-12
Fixed price? Who cares it's still very expensive. CFI opportunities? For multi time you have a point but a CFI job is easy to get anywhere. ME time? You can do the whole training in ME time and come out cheaper at your local school.
Save money to pay loan at ATP? No kidding!
Save money to pay loan at ATP? No kidding!
This is directly from their site:
http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ram/index.html
Included in the Price
Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995 Apartments (90 Day Fast Track Only) Included Cross-Country Hotels Included 5 FAA Written Exams
(IRA, CAX, FIA, FII & FOI) Included Manuals, Training Syllabus & Checklists Included Jeppesen Airway Manual with Charts for Cross-Country Phase Included Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995
Before you even start the program, you get a Box with all the stuff you will need for the course in it. Jepp Inst/Comm. book, 4 Gliem Books, All the PTS' and Oral exam guides, Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook, The Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, The Flight Instructor's Handbook, checklists, Seminole PIM/POH, custom syllabus and 3 very nice polo shirts. While we were living in the apartment that ATP provided, I contacted the leasing office, it went for $1250/mo. The average electric bill was $160/mo and cable was $70/mo, ATP paid for it all. There was 4 of us living in the apartment. At the end of the program, I turned in my receipts for reimbursement on charts and expenses on the road and that came to $190, ATP paid that. While I was down there, I stayed in hotels a total of 9 nights at an average of $110/night, ATP picked up the tab. They also would take car of cab rides and rental cars if you needed them to, I never did.
Lets break it down then:
Total Cost ATP Today = $45,000
Less 5 FAA Writtens (5*$90/ea) = $450
Less 4 Gliem books (4*$20) = $80
Less Jepp Book = $60
Less Handbooks (3*$15) = $45
Less PTSs & OEGs = $75
Less PA-44 POH = $50.00
Less reimbursed expenses = $190
Less Hotels = (9*$110) = $990
Less Rent and Utilities ((1250+160+70)/4) = 370/person/month = $1110
Total Cost of Flight Training ~ $41,950
Now if you do a rough calculation and base the whole thing on multi time, it comes down to $220 per hour dual. Not too bad. But that also includes god knows how much ground time, 10 hours in a 172, 30 hours in a crappy sim and 70 hours in a Level 6 Seminole FTD, all with your instructor.
Now if you want to separate that out a little more:
Less 172 time ($80*10) = $800
Now you are down to $41,150. Who knows how much ground time we spent, but it was a lot. I won't even add in the cost of the sim because I have no idea what they would bill at. But we will conservatively say 200 hours of instructor time outside of flying including the 100 hours spent in the sim.
Less Instructor time (200*$30) = $6000 and you would pay more than that at your mom and pop FBO.
Now you are down to $35,150. Which is $185 per hour dual. I would dare you to beat that somewhere else.
Now if you really want to make it look nice, when I did it 3 years ago, it was $32000 and you got 150 hours of multi time. And I figured that that ended up being $155 and hour dual. You can barely rent a new 172 for that.
12-14-2006 | 10:58 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Do you have something against ATP or do you just not listen?
This is directly from their site:
http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ram/index.html
Included in the Price
Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995 Apartments (90 Day Fast Track Only) Included Cross-Country Hotels Included 5 FAA Written Exams
(IRA, CAX, FIA, FII & FOI) Included Manuals, Training Syllabus & Checklists Included Jeppesen Airway Manual with Charts for Cross-Country Phase Included Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995
Before you even start the program, you get a Box with all the stuff you will need for the course in it. Jepp Inst/Comm. book, 4 Gliem Books, All the PTS' and Oral exam guides, Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook, The Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, The Flight Instructor's Handbook, checklists, Seminole PIM/POH, custom syllabus and 3 very nice polo shirts. While we were living in the apartment that ATP provided, I contacted the leasing office, it went for $1250/mo. The average electric bill was $160/mo and cable was $70/mo, ATP paid for it all. There was 4 of us living in the apartment. At the end of the program, I turned in my receipts for reimbursement on charts and expenses on the road and that came to $190, ATP paid that. While I was down there, I stayed in hotels a total of 9 nights at an average of $110/night, ATP picked up the tab. They also would take car of cab rides and rental cars if you needed them to, I never did.
Lets break it down then:
Total Cost ATP Today = $45,000
Less 5 FAA Writtens (5*$90/ea) = $450
Less 4 Gliem books (4*$20) = $80
Less Jepp Book = $60
Less Handbooks (3*$15) = $45
Less PTSs & OEGs = $75
Less PA-44 POH = $50.00
Less reimbursed expenses = $190
Less Hotels = (9*$110) = $990
Less Rent and Utilities ((1250+160+70)/4) = 370/person/month = $1110
Total Cost of Flight Training ~ $41,950
Now if you do a rough calculation and base the whole thing on multi time, it comes down to $220 per hour dual. Not too bad. But that also includes god knows how much ground time, 10 hours in a 172, 30 hours in a crappy sim and 70 hours in a Level 6 Seminole FTD, all with your instructor.
Now if you want to separate that out a little more:
Less 172 time ($80*10) = $800
Now you are down to $41,150. Who knows how much ground time we spent, but it was a lot. I won't even add in the cost of the sim because I have no idea what they would bill at. But we will conservatively say 200 hours of instructor time outside of flying including the 100 hours spent in the sim.
Less Instructor time (200*$30) = $6000 and you would pay more than that at your mom and pop FBO.
Now you are down to $35,150. Which is $185 per hour dual. I would dare you to beat that somewhere else.
Now if you really want to make it look nice, when I did it 3 years ago, it was $32000 and you got 150 hours of multi time. And I figured that that ended up being $155 and hour dual. You can barely rent a new 172 for that.
This is directly from their site:
http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ram/index.html
Included in the Price
Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995 Apartments (90 Day Fast Track Only) Included Cross-Country Hotels Included 5 FAA Written Exams
(IRA, CAX, FIA, FII & FOI) Included Manuals, Training Syllabus & Checklists Included Jeppesen Airway Manual with Charts for Cross-Country Phase Included Airline Career Pilot Program $44,995
Before you even start the program, you get a Box with all the stuff you will need for the course in it. Jepp Inst/Comm. book, 4 Gliem Books, All the PTS' and Oral exam guides, Airplane Flying Handbook, Instrument Flying Handbook, The Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, The Flight Instructor's Handbook, checklists, Seminole PIM/POH, custom syllabus and 3 very nice polo shirts. While we were living in the apartment that ATP provided, I contacted the leasing office, it went for $1250/mo. The average electric bill was $160/mo and cable was $70/mo, ATP paid for it all. There was 4 of us living in the apartment. At the end of the program, I turned in my receipts for reimbursement on charts and expenses on the road and that came to $190, ATP paid that. While I was down there, I stayed in hotels a total of 9 nights at an average of $110/night, ATP picked up the tab. They also would take car of cab rides and rental cars if you needed them to, I never did.
Lets break it down then:
Total Cost ATP Today = $45,000
Less 5 FAA Writtens (5*$90/ea) = $450
Less 4 Gliem books (4*$20) = $80
Less Jepp Book = $60
Less Handbooks (3*$15) = $45
Less PTSs & OEGs = $75
Less PA-44 POH = $50.00
Less reimbursed expenses = $190
Less Hotels = (9*$110) = $990
Less Rent and Utilities ((1250+160+70)/4) = 370/person/month = $1110
Total Cost of Flight Training ~ $41,950
Now if you do a rough calculation and base the whole thing on multi time, it comes down to $220 per hour dual. Not too bad. But that also includes god knows how much ground time, 10 hours in a 172, 30 hours in a crappy sim and 70 hours in a Level 6 Seminole FTD, all with your instructor.
Now if you want to separate that out a little more:
Less 172 time ($80*10) = $800
Now you are down to $41,150. Who knows how much ground time we spent, but it was a lot. I won't even add in the cost of the sim because I have no idea what they would bill at. But we will conservatively say 200 hours of instructor time outside of flying including the 100 hours spent in the sim.
Less Instructor time (200*$30) = $6000 and you would pay more than that at your mom and pop FBO.
Now you are down to $35,150. Which is $185 per hour dual. I would dare you to beat that somewhere else.
Now if you really want to make it look nice, when I did it 3 years ago, it was $32000 and you got 150 hours of multi time. And I figured that that ended up being $155 and hour dual. You can barely rent a new 172 for that.
Thanks for posting...This is an even better deal than I realized...I'm speechless. Their reputation is well earned.
I can't wait to go...
-LAFF
12-14-2006 | 01:37 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Likes: 0
Only the military academies pay for your degree and flight training.
You can keep the price of a 4 year degree down by attending a state college. I also recommend getting a degree in something not related to aviation.
ATP+state school = good deal
-LAFF
You can keep the price of a 4 year degree down by attending a state college. I also recommend getting a degree in something not related to aviation.
ATP+state school = good deal
-LAFF
12-14-2006 | 02:19 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
From: DHC-6 / PC-12
So what would you suggest?
Do your first 2 or 3 years of college at your choice of school, even if it is Aero-minded, take a semester off, go to ATP, come back and flight instruct while you finish school, then go get a job. I never said don't go to school.
12-16-2006 | 06:34 PM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
I went to western michigan university to get my 4 year bachelors in aviation along with my ratings. In some ways I'm glad I did it, and other ways I wish I just got my ratings at a mom and pop airport like my friend did. Since he flew at a mom and pop airport, he met alot of friendly aircraft owners who more than willingly let him build time in their planes for maybe the price of lunch! now he's flying a caravan making 48 k a year, while I'm stuck with a big bill and no flying job after graduating from a big 141 flight school 
. It feels pretty embarrassing. I've looked at some academys and I gotta tell you, they really make it sound like your only chance of getting a professional pilot job is to fly with them, and that is total bull, just look at my friend. All you need is a 4 year bachelor's from any accredited college in anything and experience as a CFII to get a prefessional flying job not some money hungry 141 school or flight academy. If I could do it all over again I would of gotten my bachelors in something other than aviation and do my ratings on the side.
. It feels pretty embarrassing. I've looked at some academys and I gotta tell you, they really make it sound like your only chance of getting a professional pilot job is to fly with them, and that is total bull, just look at my friend. All you need is a 4 year bachelor's from any accredited college in anything and experience as a CFII to get a prefessional flying job not some money hungry 141 school or flight academy. If I could do it all over again I would of gotten my bachelors in something other than aviation and do my ratings on the side.
