Solo in 25 hours. Ouch!
 

So I soloed after 25 hours. Bummer. I did a 141 course that followed the Jeppesen syllabus.
As some of you may know, I had that pain in the a$$ flight instructor who loved to talk about blabid,y blah, blah. My CFI told me not to worry about how long it took me to solo and not to compare with others, because I would just “set myself up for failure”. I got booked hours, and I got chumped.

I compare my experience to that of Rosemary in “Rosemary’s Baby”, when Dr. Saprestien (the OB) convinces Rosemary (who is impregnated with Satan’s child) to not read pregnancy books, nor compare her pregnancy with that of her friends or family since every pregnancy is unique. This practice, of course, promoted isolationism and didn’t allow Rosemary to see how she was progressing next to her peers. Thus Satan’s seed was undisturbed and born unto the earth.

At the FBO I’m at, other CFIs have shown sympathy towards me and have rolled their eyes at my CFI and his wasteful ways. The redeeming quality about the FBO I’m at is that the owner and chief have really shown me how to be a good pilot and not just pass the check ride. Unfortunately, the owner/chief is only available during Stage Checks.

70 hours later I’m approaching my FAA Practical Exam. I flew 3 – 4 times per week with my really lame CFI, who, I know, I should have switched after the third flight. I’ve been with one other FBO (had a drunkard CFI) and I’ve been by ATP (totally disappointing) and really like the FBO I’m at, with the exception of my dumb a$$ instructor.

I guess I’m not here to seek advice, because I already know what to do, but I just want to let you newbies out there hear my story so that you know when to say “STOP. YOU ARE FIRED” or figure out what is important to you. I couldn’t bring myself to uproot and stop my training to find the perfect CFI. So instead I sucked it up and rode it out.

We’ll see how the outcome goes in regards to my End of Course. Perhaps I may even get to fill out an evaluation on my CFI.

Good excuse! At 70 hours you would have been on your X/C's building time and searching for that $100 hamburger. Disappointing indeed!

Just curious...What was so "disappointing" about ATP? I know that they have some faults, but don't bash the whole system when you chose to "stick it out" at your favorite FBO.

Hey man I knew a guy who didnt solo until around 60hrs at a 141 school. He managed to do just fine afterwards. If you have a sh!tty instructor, thats self critiquing man, you need to get a new instructor.

Good luck, you would be amazed what self study can get you!

I do like the FBO I'm at with the exception of my CFI because the staff and the other CFIs seem genuinely good at providing a quality service to the students. Unfortunately, I got stuck with Mr. Halitosis-blahbidy-blah-blah. I was the newest student, so when I asked for a new Instructor, they really didn't have one available.

The other FBO I was at had a CFI who loved to cut the fuel selector off, put the plane into spins to teach me a lesson, and come to work smelling like a keg of beer.

The ATP was facility was a dark, dank, and dreary operation. Students looked depressed and the CFIs couldn't answer half of the questions I asked them. Plus the place had the smell of old socks, stale coffee, and B.O. (kind of like an old college dorm). The ATP CFI who gave me a tour spoke very slowly and seemed confused a lot of the time. He did admit to recently getting into a motorcycle accident and just getting out of rehab to make his last hours as a CFI before applying to the airlines. Who knows... maybe he was a TBI paitient. For the sake of passengers, I hope not.

So out of these three options, my current FBO was the lesser of all evils. And like some of you, I don't have the luxury of just packing my bags and going to FL or AZ to do my flight lessons. I actually have a house, job, and family to support, so I'm limited to what is local for me.

Fair enough, just checking.

yeah, your IP is very important... there are some greedy ass ones too... they'll make a hour flight a 3 hour flight... luckily my instructor and I get along REAL good, we learn a lot from each other...

I remember my friend and I went to a FBO to rent a plane and he (my friend) did the checkout ride with this weird ass German female CFI... he has a thousand hours, with commercial, IFR ratings and whatnot and knows the area very well... a 45 min checkout ride became an almost 3 hour checkout ride! it was fricking nuts....

Two VERY important things:

Number 1. I soloed at 26 hours. I got my private at 49 hours. Part 61. Used the Jepppesen Syllabus. I flew out of a towered airport (and they take longer than an uncontrolled field). I was in no hurry to solo. I just wanted to become the best pilot I could. Remember, once you solo, all you need is some night practice, two cross countries with your instructor, 10 hours of solo (most of this will be PIC XC), and then checkride prep. This is probably 25 hours. (about 13 of XC, 5 of night/instrument, 3 of random VOR/ADF/unusual attitudes, 5 hours of checkride prep).

As far as I am concerned, you could finish your private with 50-55 hours (AND THAT IS GOOD!!!) If you want to be an airline pilot someday, you are going to need all that time anyway. Don't stress if you go 10 hours over what you thought it would take you. REMEMBER, the national average is between 60hours and 70 hours.

Number 2. You already know this, but change your instructor. Now. Not a week from now. Not next time you go to the airport. RIGHT NOW. Call him up and tell him you want to change instructors. It is not a big deal. I had 3 different instructors for my private. Not because I wanted to get rid of them. I started flying up through solo in Colorado. Then I moved to California and did a few hours at an FBO, then found an AWESOME flying club across the field and changed yet again. They were all good instructors. They are all teaching for the same test. Each one did a few things differently, but it was not a big deal. I say switching between 3 different instructors maybe cost me 1 or 2 hours. NO BIG DEAL! Do not let your current flight instructor continue to milk you.

Ditto above. Your flight instructor is milking your and that needs to be stopped. You need to tell him that he's fired, and then you need to sit with the chief instructor and relate to him that if he wants your business, he'll find you a new instructor. It's your money. If you want to continue to waste it, go ahead. If you want to put it to good use, well, you're the customer, so spend it on what you want, not what someone else thinks you should have.

If at you and your CFI aren't getting along, or you don't like him/her after the first handfull of lessons.. Fire them. Hire a new one.

Keep in mind guys the average solo times range from 15hrs on the low end to 30 hrs on the high side. I personally have soloed students with as low as 8hrs and as high as 35hrs. I cant speak for your skills but, some people just have trouble and take more time to develop certain skills not always just flying related (IE attitude towards flying).

Another reason to avoid FBOs - the bad / poor attitude student.

-LAFF

Solo at 15 hours? Gulp. I am at 15 hours right now, and if I solo tomorrow, I know just enough to crash and kill myself and thereby depriving the forums of my genius!

Yeah, it's horrible out there...quick everyone to ALL ATP!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

You know more than you realize...The whole FBO / CFI game works by stringing you along for more money / hours...

-LAFF

No...Quick - run to and train at the place that suits you. If that happends to be www.allatps.com then so be it.

-LAFF

According to you, the only honest flight school out there is ATP? I'd take my chances at an FBO where there are instructors who instruct because it's a career or they enjoy it. Not some guy who is regurgitating what he learned to pass his MEI ride last month. There are no bad instructors at ATP? You need to step away from the Kool-Aid man.

Just saying that its not always the instructors fault. Yes we are all underpaid and may milk a flight every now and then when it gets slow. but some students just take more time and try and lay the blame on everyone but themselves.

Based on my experience with FBO - they are not honest operations. I've never said ATP has no bad CFIs. I don't drink their kool-aid. I've never set foot in an ATP location. I have merely decided to go their for my training after I retire from the AF. I based that decision on research / factfinding on this and other forums.

-LAFF

Boys, boys, please! The only thing we need now is Uncle Bose in here to tell us about the horrors of ERAU!

BS...Students don't need more time...FBO / CFIs milk their students as much as they can - its how they make their coin. The longer the student stays the more you and the FBO make...

-LAFF

Then why is it cheaper to train with an FBO all the way through.

There is a good thread on flightinfo.com about ERAU. One student left with 120K is the hole...His payments are $600+ a month on regional FO pay...Of course, there are a few ERAU grads that have 'no regrets...'

-LAFF

Its not cheaper compared to the ME time ATP program gives you.

-LAFF

FBO's don't provide cookie cutter training like the big schools. We adapt to each of our students. Marketing is as much of a part of our jobs as the flying and if we do a bad job or make a bad impression students don't come back. The bigger schools already have your money and you are forced into training good or bad. My point is if it were really as bad as you make it out to be there is no way we would be in business.

The infamous "safety pilot" routine.

Your in business because of the ignorant masses that don't know about the product ATP sells. I was one of those ignorant fools. I've since learned an very valuable lesson...


I'm very bitter about my FBO experiences...

-LAFF

Not at all...Thats AriBen you're thinking about.

-LAFF

My friend is a Standardization pilot at ATP. The cross country time building is safety pilot time.

Its legal under the FARs. I see no problem if thats what they do. I have to be honest - I didn't know thats what they did when two student pilots went x-c at ATP. It makes sense.

-LAFF

This is true it is legal but can be difficult to explain when on an interview(I have heard) I would rather spend more time instructing to gain PIC time and experience than sitting in the right seat as safety pilot.

Maybe airlines ask to see how well applicants can explain an applicable FAR to them. You're being hired to be a Captain someday - you'll have to explain things to an F/O...From my research most if not all ATP folks spend time as CFIs to get to min levels or more for the regionals...

-LAFF

Not to side track too much but if you are in the AF now why not start flying. Join the Civil Air Patrol or a flying club..

Clearly, neither of these alternatives are as cost-effective as ATP.:rolleyes:

Wonder how much he got paid for that infomercial. He should be selling oxyclean..

USAF T-41 solo (1971)
 

Vagabond,

As I recall, we had to solo the T-41 (Cessna 172) in less time than that. Of course, there were mitigating factors: 1) The instructors made no more money by giving a student extra rides. 2) There was a plentiful supply of students and a T-37 class scheduled to start on a certain day, so they washed out guys who would surely have soloed given a little more time. 3) I think they skipped lots of instruction that a civilian student would get -- FARs, navigation, etc.-- concentrating on just the basics.

So it probably wasn't the same course that you're taking, but it was a real solo, followed by a dunking in a cow tank full of green, slimy water. :eek:

Are you you weren't following a Japanese syllabus? :D Don't worry about you how long you took to solo. Different airports are complicated and maybe you just didn't "get" something. You have now soloed now so you press on.

It is all experience and that is what counts. You should try different instructors however to see if you find one you like better. It's your money. It's your training.

I'm stationed in DC and with my security clearance I don't want to risk any negative attention. For me its not worth it at this point in my career. I can wait.

-LAFF

Huh? I did lots of flying in the DC area, and I never had any 'negative attention' cast upon me.

Tom, I'm glad it ain't 1971 anymore! :)

I've made my decision to not fly in the DC area. I'm not going to rationalize it for you. You made yours - I'm glad it worked out for you.

-LAFF