New Norwegian News
 

Announced this afternoon. Most short haul pilot bases in Spain, FCO short haul base, the SWF and PVD 737 bases all closed. Long haul pilot bases in FLL, BKK, and AMS closed as well. The company says most affected crew will be offered transfers to other bases, or to the 787 operation. There will be a reduction in 737 operations, but the 787 operation will continue to expand. No word on if the U.S. based pilots will have other opportunities. Cabin crew bases in JFK, LAX, and FLL are unaffected. This is pouring gasoline on the fire regarding the IAG rumors. It has long been speculated that these are changes requested by IAG as part of the purchase deal.

Great news. So all those contracted employees in the USA will now be looking for jobs. Let's see how that works for them.

It will probably work as well as it did for the guys who went to Freedom Air and GoJets. In other words just fine. People who do the hiring either don't care, or have long forgotten about it.

They won’t work at a legacy.

Based on past history, they will have no issues.

It depends on the airline. It’s not going to be a plus for them so they will need a strong resume otherwise. Most who went that route probably don’t have a real strong resume in the first place. I don’t think you will see very many snapped up by the majors. They are going to have to do a few years at a regional.

Funny... reminds me of a statement of a clueless adolescent.

Wouldn’t bet the farm on your opinion sailingfun... Many of my colleagues, former expats, have been, to use your term “SNAPPED”, are with DAL, AA, SW, AK, UAL... the list, and start dates goes on.

I don’t care where they work, as long as their seeking new employment is a direct result of Norwegian winding down operations.

Got an app in my email today. He'll get interviewed and probably hired as a direct entry Captain.

What are Norwegian's other pilot bases? Which ones will stay open?

"Norwegian says the news has already been shared with its employees and unions. Job transfers to bases in Oslo, Stockholm and Madrid have been offered, as well as opportunities on the airline’s Dreamliner fleet including at New York JFK. "


Sounds like the SWF and PVD crews may have an option at JFK?

These are not expats. They are pilots working in the US. Keep in mind most airlines have pilots involved in the selection process. Delta uses many line pilots.

Negative. Regardless of their nominated base, they are “expats”. They are employed and compensated by a foreign entity. They have to obtain a validation, limited in time, on their FAA certificates.

The “Physical Presense Test”, used in determining excluded income earned abroad is clearly an issue for an expat working for a forien entity, who is U.S. based.

Under the physical presence test, a 12-month period can be any period of 12 consecutive months that includes 330 full days. If you qualify under the physical presence test for part of a year, it is important to carefully choose the 12 month period that will allow the maximum exclusion for that year.

This is a reason for many not taking the job with PVD SWF of FLL base. A validation is worthless any place other than the country of issue. The validation is valid for the carrier specific only. No on the other hand, a full EASA ATPL does have value if employment is sort for in countries where an FAA certificate is not accepted.

And your point? Are you suggesting that expats are are black balled from Delta? You are gravely mistaken.

JFK is only a cabin crew base, not a pilot base. There will be no U.S. based pilots as a result of this, not on the 787 or 737. JFK, LAX, and FLL will remain as cabin crew bases according to what I have heard and read. Word this morning is that the pilots have been told March 31 will be their last day. Apparently many for of the 787 crews based in FLL who came on an FAA license have never seen the inside of the airplane. Supposedly there have been all sorts of issues with getting an EASA validation and some of them have been sitting around, collecting a paycheck, for over a year. I am not sure if all U.S. based pilots are losing their jobs, or just the ones who do not have EU/EEA/CH citizenship and an EASA license. Apparently many who chose U.S. bases were European pilots who had dual US/EU citizenship, were married to Americans, or had a green card from another source. I did hear the FLL base chief was a Norwegian guy who is married to an American. Not sure if people like him will have the options to head to a European base. But all of the Americans are definitely out of a job on March 31.

You keep lumping US pilots based in the US working for Norwegian with true expats who work for overseas operations. That is where you are mistaken. Delta likes expats. They bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to the airline. US based Norwegian pilots not so much!

............filler.......:rolleyes:

How many EAL scabs got through the filter to a legacy? The Norwegian pilots are looked upon the same way. Like it or not the word has been out for a long time and there are too many other candidates to hire that aren’t from Norwegian.

They won’t be told they are not being hired because they are from Norwegian, they just won’t be hired.

Lol........

Norwegian Pilots are not scabs. Unless there was a strike and a picket fence was crossed, no point in misusing the word scab.

They aren't scabs by definition, but lets not downplay the detriment they have caused to the US airline industry. Thank goodness they failed on their own, even when despite ALPA and other professional organizations outwardly coming out against Norwegian operating in the U.S., the government allowed them to operate. Good riddance...

I will concede that perhaps for the next 2-4 years things may be difficult for them at a major. But the history shows that unless a person is an actual, honest to goodness, name on the "Jumpseat Protect List", scab, all will eventually be forgotten or forgiven. Even then there is a chance you could officially be forgiven as ALPA officially forgave the Continental scabs when ALPA realized they had a realistic chance of getting their money. Back in the early 2000s the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that the Freedom Air guys would end up on a list and never be able to get another job. Now barely anyone remembers what Freedom Air was, let alone remember that the guys were not supposed to get hired. Around 2005/2006, GoJet guys were the new bad guys, and the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that those guys will never get hired. Now, 13-14 years later, nobody cares whether someone was at GoJet.

Unless there is an economic downturn, or a 9/11 type catastrophic event, within then next 2-4 years most people will have forgotten about Norwegian and have moved on, and these guys will not have issues getting hired at majors/legacies.

This is correct. The word scab loses meaning when it’s misapplied.

I have seen near zero actual detriment. In fact, in the same years that Norwegian has operated in the US, I have only seen positive trends for US pilots....

You don't think the current administration allowing them to operate the way they were, was a detriment to the airline industry?

A downward Pressure on ticket prices?
Perhaps but they fly 787s nonstop from OSL to cities in the US, no direct competition there.
Yes, they tried 737 across the pond from NY, but sounds like a stupid idea to start with, not many pax wants to be stuck in a Fluf for 8 hours. :(

Nope.
They tried it, it failed.
Next administration can reverse it if they would like.
I don’t support OSM, but they didn’t do anything illegal. And I’m glad the market forced them to fail.

x2. NAI not scabs.

There are still people out there affected by freedom or gojets who don't forget. Including me. Odds are low that you'll be in a position where you have to get through one of those people, but anything's possible. I have both lists, although I was only impacted by one of them.

I think NAI folks are less likely to have any issues because, because unlike the alter-ego union busters, they didn't directly impact any particular pilot group in a manner which can be directly linked back to them personally.

Plesae provide proven data to support your claim such as, but not limited to... US carriers going bust... layoffs/furloughs from AA, DAL, UAL, etc.... wage concessions by US pilots.

Any one that went to NAI wasn’t likely to get hired at a US Major to begin with. AMF.

Well... not necessarily true Grumble. There are late fifties and older expats who wanted to return to the US. They were not ready to retire. And of course, due to seniority, they’d probably never upgrade prior to reaching retirement. Other than limited ACMIs, NAI was a viable DEC for those not ready to hang up the goggles.

Wait, you actually want some evidence of those claims?! How dare you counter vitriolic rhetoric with a request for simple evidence of its truthfulness! :D

Mea culpa:(

You are funny
It’s alpa’s fault of course

Can you enlighten us about the past

They would not need to upgrade. They would make more in the right seat of a legacy than the left seat at NAI.

You’re missing the point... After many years in seat 1L-W... would you want to downgrade? After 35 years in the industry, would you want to be number gazillion on the seniority list??? Would you want to sit reserve in NYC, ORD, of BOS in the winter in a crash pad? Its not always about $$$ 2Stg.

I think that is the hang up. Most can't take the hit to their ego. Most new hires today can be off reserve in a few months if they aren't too picky with bases or equipment.

....Sigh....I have, several times already.

Freedom Air and GoJet guys have had no issues getting hired. I know four former Freedom Air guys who had zero issues getting hired by legacy/major/major cargo airlines. Two are at FedEx, one at Delta and one is at Southwest. Freedom Air never was brought up in their interviews. I personally know a former GoJet guy at United, and have two friends of friends who are former GoJet guys, one is at UPS and the other is at American. Again, their association with GoJet never came up during their interview process. Overwhelmingly people have forgotten about FreedomAir and GoJet and why they are supposed to hate them.

There was a point in time where Southwest was the irreverent upstart in the industry. People who could not get real jobs went to Southwest. The industry fought against them for decades. Now they are one of the most desirable carriers to work for.

When UPS first started, their seniority list was filled with ex-cargo guys who could not land a job at a "real" airline. Their pay was terrible and it was seen as a dead end job. Now UPS is one of the most prized jobs in the industry.

Continental was filled with real, honest to goodness, on the "Jumpseat Protection List" ALPA scabs. When ALPA felt they could land the Continental pilot group, and secure a lot more money, ALPA officially forgave the scabs and welcomed them back into the fold with open arms.

When Virgin America started, it was fought against by the industry and all the unions. The pilots who went there were the guys who could not get hired at a legacy airline. They would be blacklisted and never get a real job. Now all those guys are ALPA members in good standing an flying for a legacy airline.

Do you need more examples? Okay, here is another: PeoplExpress was considered a bottom feeder airline. Pilots were paid worse and even had to help clean the cabin. You went to PeoplExpress because you could not find a job at any good airline. The guys who went there retired from Continental and United, or are the senior guys at United today.

The history shows quite clearly that unless you are an honest to goodness, legitimate scab, flying for a certain "bad" company will not make much of a difference down the road. And even if you are a real life, legitimate scab, there is a precedent for ALPA forgiving you and/or flying for a legacy airline. Let's not forget that legacy United also had a huge number of scabs as well.

While you bay be correct in some of your assumption, youth is starting to take over the ranks of LECs in ALPA. Also there are some who directly witnessed firsthand the effects of scabs as their father/mother lost their job. There are others who have had to fly with such scabs and hear their cries and wormy excuse over the years and have turned a deaf ear. I am one! I am also very vocal in our LEC/MEC to try to limit the amount of people who would do nothing but turn their back to their fellow pilot for the all mighty dollar. There are still a highly proud bunch who have had their pensions stolen, upgrades delayed, and have been told lies over and over. We are not about to legitimize someone’s poor decision to help undersell our profession over a quick upgrade. You may cast all the stones you wish but the facts remain that there are still many who try to uphold this profession and leave it better for the next generation rather than to sell out to the lowest bidder. We don’t always get it right but we try to improve time and time again.