Who is really getting the Quantas SO job?
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
I honestly don't get it. If there is such an extreme pilot shortage in Australia why is the competition so fierce at Qantas? Why would the Australian government be making it so hard for foreign pilot to get a job in an industry virtually starving to death for airmen? I thought ICAO solved all these problems of "your system, not my system.". I get it. I am walking into the world of applied aviation vs. the world of aviation theory I spent the last 6 years of my life in during college and flight school.
1) Most of these countries have a need for EXPERIENCED pilots (those with time on type) in the short-term, and they will go overseas to fill the short-term gap until their local guys have enough experience...which leads to the next point...
2) If a country is short enough on pilots in the long-term forecast, they ARE willing to train and take on lower-timers, but due to the increased cost (and increased risk of losing them to other foreign carriers), they typically don't go out recruiting foreigners for these lower-time cadet/type rating/bonding programmes.
So, in general, when you see some news headline "So and so is desperate for pilots," remember, said country will typically go about filling the shortage by importing foreigners with time on type for the short-run until they can train/recruit/season enough locals to fill the gap when the foreigners cycle back out. This is why you don't see many (there are some, i.e. Cathay/Emirates/etc.) airlines worldwide recruiting foreigners for permanent positions. This is not to say there aren't opps out there (Africa, for example) for low-timers to get some great experience.
#12
I honestly don't get it. If there is such an extreme pilot shortage in Australia why is the competition so fierce at Qantas? Why would the Australian government be making it so hard for foreign pilot to get a job in an industry virtually starving to death for airmen? I thought ICAO solved all these problems of "your system, not my system.". I get it. I am walking into the world of applied aviation vs. the world of aviation theory I spent the last 6 years of my life in during college and flight school.
Australia does not have serious shortage of pilots. What they do have is a shortage of pilots willing to work for the cr@ppy pay that is being offered by the lower tier airlines. Namely QF Link, Rex and NJS. No matter where you go on this planet you'll find experienced Australian pilots that would go back in a heart beat but can't because the money isn't reasonable
NJS have recently introduced a B-Scale contract, that starts a B717 FO off at around AU$58k, as well as a 3 year bond. Sounds good compared to the pittance you'd get here as a 1st year FO at a regional. BUT and here's the big but, QF does not hire from QF Link carriers. Unofficially, of course. So your only option to move on in Oz is Virgin Blue. Also, I'd love to move back home but I'm not particularly fond of the amount of tax I'd be paying. Australia is now one of the most highly taxed countries in the world and the cost of living has sky-rocketed over the last 5 years. So you're not going to see much of that AU$58k starting pay. THe last time I talked to a couple of my mates in Oz, the CA at NJS was earning AU$110k and paying around AU$35k in taxes. The CA at Virgin Blue was earning AU$190k and paying AU$70k in taxes.
The other 2 carriers I mentioned require you to pay around AU12k for a type rating (FO's are required to be typed in Australia) and pay less than NJS.
Virgin Blue and QF are not having problems finding suitable applicants and filling any available positions, whatever you may read in the press.
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Advanced Newbie
Posts: 126
But, doesn't Australia have socialized health-care? If you add health-care costs into the taxes we pay here in the US, we'd be better of just socializing medicine since combined we spend more on taxes and health care than the Aussis spend on taxes alone. Germany has nearly 40% taxes, but at least you get what you pay for. Pension funds are guaranteed to a much higher rate along with months of "you've been fired" pay, if it should happen. Don't the Australian citizens get anything in return? In the US we look forward to finding our way into the most heavily taxed bracket as we work out way towards $250k.
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Advanced Newbie
Posts: 126
You're basically ignoring the fundamental tenets of international contract flying common to all countries with so-called "pilot shortages:"
1) Most of these countries have a need for EXPERIENCED pilots (those with time on type) in the short-term, and they will go overseas to fill the short-term gap until their local guys have enough experience...which leads to the next point...
2) If a country is short enough on pilots in the long-term forecast, they ARE willing to train and take on lower-timers, but due to the increased cost (and increased risk of losing them to other foreign carriers), they typically don't go out recruiting foreigners for these lower-time cadet/type rating/bonding programmes.
So, in general, when you see some news headline "So and so is desperate for pilots," remember, said country will typically go about filling the shortage by importing foreigners with time on type for the short-run until they can train/recruit/season enough locals to fill the gap when the foreigners cycle back out. This is why you don't see many (there are some, i.e. Cathay/Emirates/etc.) airlines worldwide recruiting foreigners for permanent positions. This is not to say there aren't opps out there (Africa, for example) for low-timers to get some great experience.
1) Most of these countries have a need for EXPERIENCED pilots (those with time on type) in the short-term, and they will go overseas to fill the short-term gap until their local guys have enough experience...which leads to the next point...
2) If a country is short enough on pilots in the long-term forecast, they ARE willing to train and take on lower-timers, but due to the increased cost (and increased risk of losing them to other foreign carriers), they typically don't go out recruiting foreigners for these lower-time cadet/type rating/bonding programmes.
So, in general, when you see some news headline "So and so is desperate for pilots," remember, said country will typically go about filling the shortage by importing foreigners with time on type for the short-run until they can train/recruit/season enough locals to fill the gap when the foreigners cycle back out. This is why you don't see many (there are some, i.e. Cathay/Emirates/etc.) airlines worldwide recruiting foreigners for permanent positions. This is not to say there aren't opps out there (Africa, for example) for low-timers to get some great experience.
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 37
Kenny - I thought you were heading to VB?? Never got a confirmation on that QF requirement for all ATPL subjects if you convert ATP to CASA ATPL from QF.
When I renewed my Australian IR earlier this year I got talking to a couple of guys at the flight school, that had just interviewed at QF for SO jobs. They were both instructors that had about 2500 hours a piece and from what I could learn, most of the guys they thought QF was taking for the SO positions came from the cadet scheme.
QF is NOT what it used to be; with the introduction of Jet*, QF pilots have essentially allowed an alter-ego airline on their turf that has so far taken over the QF A330's and is due to receive the majority of the 787's that QF has on order.
Competition for QF is beyond anything you could imagine and really, without having grown up in the Australian Aviation petri dish you're probably SOL.
There was a time when I'd have given my left nut for a job there, but not any more.
QF is NOT what it used to be; with the introduction of Jet*, QF pilots have essentially allowed an alter-ego airline on their turf that has so far taken over the QF A330's and is due to receive the majority of the 787's that QF has on order.
Competition for QF is beyond anything you could imagine and really, without having grown up in the Australian Aviation petri dish you're probably SOL.
There was a time when I'd have given my left nut for a job there, but not any more.
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