Ash. . . what ash?
04-17-2010, 10:58 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
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Posts: 701
Ash. . . what ash?
Well, another clear blue sky day in AMS with the airport/airspace still closed.
I get the problems, I really do, but with the IR and Doppler technology could we not go around any dangerous plumes on a real time basis, even at a much reduced rate of traffic flow? It would be just like Chinese airspace.
Seriously though, I understand that the FAA is not on board with the extent of the closures on some of the conference calls anyway. I've been around ash clouds, and landed in a sand storm or two (Saudi Arabian silica) and as I said I do understand the potential threat, but it appears to be a little over done here. I also get that looking straight up does not tell me what's going on across Europe, but I'm guessing that since it's been a few day's of gin clear across much of the area, I am starting to wonder.
Someone with extensive VA knowledge please feel free to set me straight. My wife is currently not in the room to do so, so I'd appreciate it.
And on a simpler note, I'm not saying that Eurocontrol should open the airspace anytime soon as I still have the Heineken factory to tour. And as it's sunny and 16 deg in AMS today, hanging around a pub on Dam Square is not such a bad thing.
Oh yea, any VFR traffic flying around at the moment? Could one hop a Navajo across the channel?
Cheers!
I get the problems, I really do, but with the IR and Doppler technology could we not go around any dangerous plumes on a real time basis, even at a much reduced rate of traffic flow? It would be just like Chinese airspace.
Seriously though, I understand that the FAA is not on board with the extent of the closures on some of the conference calls anyway. I've been around ash clouds, and landed in a sand storm or two (Saudi Arabian silica) and as I said I do understand the potential threat, but it appears to be a little over done here. I also get that looking straight up does not tell me what's going on across Europe, but I'm guessing that since it's been a few day's of gin clear across much of the area, I am starting to wonder.
Someone with extensive VA knowledge please feel free to set me straight. My wife is currently not in the room to do so, so I'd appreciate it.
And on a simpler note, I'm not saying that Eurocontrol should open the airspace anytime soon as I still have the Heineken factory to tour. And as it's sunny and 16 deg in AMS today, hanging around a pub on Dam Square is not such a bad thing.
Oh yea, any VFR traffic flying around at the moment? Could one hop a Navajo across the channel?
Cheers!
04-20-2010, 03:12 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: bar stool
Posts: 771
Not sure how much research and inflight testing has been done on VA in various densities on aircraft but maybe it is because of the uncertainty and inexperience the European authorities have with this phenomena. Nobody wants to have their finger prints on anything should there be a mishap due to the ash.
04-20-2010, 04:41 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Volcanic Ash and Europe
Actually, Britain has experience with ash...it was a British Airways 747 that had all 4 engines flameout near Jakarta when they flew through an ash plume. It was at night.
Koru:
The difference with Volcanic Ash versus ordinary sand: Ash is the consistency of talcum power. It is easily passed through the compressor, and would pass harmlessly through the combustion section except for one problem: because the particles are so small, they melt very easily. When they do, they get deposited as molten blobs of dust.
Eventually, enough builds up that the combustion cans and turbine guide vanes get plugged...engine no-workie.
Bigger particles of sand have less surface area per unit of weight, and take more time to melt....usually passing through as hot (but un-molten) pieces of sand.
In the BA incident, they eventually got 3 engines re-lit (down near 15,000 ft), but the windscreen was opaque from the 2000-grit sanding it had received. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9
Koru:
The difference with Volcanic Ash versus ordinary sand: Ash is the consistency of talcum power. It is easily passed through the compressor, and would pass harmlessly through the combustion section except for one problem: because the particles are so small, they melt very easily. When they do, they get deposited as molten blobs of dust.
Eventually, enough builds up that the combustion cans and turbine guide vanes get plugged...engine no-workie.
Bigger particles of sand have less surface area per unit of weight, and take more time to melt....usually passing through as hot (but un-molten) pieces of sand.
In the BA incident, they eventually got 3 engines re-lit (down near 15,000 ft), but the windscreen was opaque from the 2000-grit sanding it had received. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9
04-20-2010, 07:35 PM
#7
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 647
I love the CA announcement. I think he watched SNL a little too much.
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control. I trust you are not in too much distress."
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them under control. I trust you are not in too much distress."
04-21-2010, 08:25 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: Contract purgatory
Posts: 701
We returned from AMS to Shanghai last night. Took off in the same skies that had been lingering around for day's, the clear blue ones, and not a hint of trouble. Beautiful flight out.
Hope everyone else starts working again soon. Happy flying.
Hope everyone else starts working again soon. Happy flying.
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