Emirates Training Dept
02-16-2012, 04:11 AM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B777 Cpt.
Posts: 95
The general outline presented here is correct. The time frame from your upgrade selection letter to your upgrade interview can be less than two months, so better start preparing early.
In the immediate past there were anywhere between 1 week and six months delay after a failed interview. The reasons can be varied, some have to go back and talk to a CRM instructor or Psychologist, others have to study some more. Some have a combination of things. Totally depends on the Interviewers (The interview is conducted by a fleet representative and an HR representative and both have equal say, meaning both need to be happy).
The ground school consists of CRM days, LOS/LOE workshop days, a day of Performance and VNAV as well as some Air Laws/Commanders responsibility, 8 days total.
The whole course consists of 26 training days. All in all a very tight program and additional training can and will be assigned where necessary.
If you fail the program you will be reassigned to the right seat and go back to the line and will be re-invited once fleet thinks you're ready again. This can be anywhere from a couple of months to a few years. If you go back to the line for more than 12 months you have to repeat the whole process, i.e. tech exam/psych evaluation and interview.
Fleet has the oversight to allow additional training and, if you fail, how soon you'll be able to try again.
Hope this helps?
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
A number of pilots are held back from even starting the upgrade if they do not pass the above process. Most often they get help in the required area and within a year or so they get through the process and start the training. There are some who never do, but that is very rare.
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
Once the upgrade training starts is goes pretty fast. There is some ground school ( Sunnfun, help me out here ) and then simulator starts.
The whole course consists of 26 training days. All in all a very tight program and additional training can and will be assigned where necessary.
If you fail the program you will be reassigned to the right seat and go back to the line and will be re-invited once fleet thinks you're ready again. This can be anywhere from a couple of months to a few years. If you go back to the line for more than 12 months you have to repeat the whole process, i.e. tech exam/psych evaluation and interview.
Fleet has the oversight to allow additional training and, if you fail, how soon you'll be able to try again.
Hope this helps?
02-16-2012, 06:51 AM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: B777 Cpt.
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by ross9238
I do apologize to the op of the thread but I have a question regarding medicals. Does EK accept applicants with a special issuance first class?
02-16-2012, 05:21 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
It's called a P2 type rating, which is for first officers. P1 is for captains. The P1 and P2 can be transferred to an FAA certificate as an SIC rating. The only way to get a full type rating on the FAA certifcate is to go through an FAA approved course then take a type ride.
Typhoonpilot
Typhoonpilot
02-16-2012, 06:59 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: retired
Posts: 560
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
Last question first. The training differences at EK over airlines in the USA were not even a factor in my decision to join the airline.
That said, training at EK is different than most airlines in the USA. Training is much more serious and the student's are held to very high standards.
The initial training progresses at a very reasonable pace. There is about 3 weeks of generic training when you start. Stuff like dangerous good, crm, human resources, etc. It gives someone a chance to get a head start on the systems and procedures study if they choose to make use of that extra time.
Key point there. I highly recommend guys come to EK alone for 3 months if possible. It's not always possible if there are children involved and it's the start of the school year. If it's the middle of the school year, leave the kids and wife at home and come to EK alone to start. That saves a lot of time and hassle of dealing with settling the family in Dubai while you should be concentrating on training. The other thing that can wait is shopping. Just live a bare bones lifestyle for 3 months. Don't go out shopping for Cars, TVs, stereos, . Just get the essentials done and then start studying.
The type rating training starts with CBT for systems. There is very little class room discussion on systems. Another key point, there is no type rating oral on systems. This is a big difference in training. All you'll get is a 100 question multiple choice test on systems at the end of the CBT/Fixed base training. Your type ride ( or skills test as we call it ) will only have a couple of questions that are more than likely operational rules or how to perform a specific manuever. So there is no need to memorize the exact function of every switch on the overhead panel like you might at a U.S. airline. You can if you want, but nobody is ever going to ask those type of questions.
A far larger emphasis is put on procedures and flows. So prior to fix base training ( IPT in the B777 ) one really should get in depth into the FCOM normal procedures to get the flows down pat. The verbiage also needs to be exact as that is the requirement.
A lot of the training is self study. You are expected to have the self-discipline to study on your own and come to each and every training session prepared. There is no spoon feeding of information ( which U.S. airlines tend to do ).
The flying part in the simulator is pretty easy. In fact, the skills test, is simple. Unlike a type rating ride in the USA, on a skills test, under the CARs you can repeat up to 3 items. For example. You screw up the V1 cut because you're pitch control is not good ( nerves maybe ). You can do it over. If it's good on the second try, it's still a pass. Procedures and management will be looked at more closely than on a U.S. type ride though.
When line training starts, it is very different. Line training covers a lot of areas for new hires. They need to see the different areas that we fly so they'll get trips to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. There will be ETOPS, HF Radio, CPDLC, and lots of stuff that some guys have never seen before. Again, a lot of self study and preparation is required for each and every flight. A trainee is expected to study the route and all the alternate airports along it so that they have a good idea where to go in an emergency. There are tools provided in the LIDO charts and OM-C, as well as online for that study. A syllabus is provided for points to discuss in cruise.
Of course there is the flying the airplane part as well. A lot of technique gets shown in line training. Much of it comes straight out of the FCTM so that book becomes much more important for line training. It's a lot more work than line training in the USA.
The training culture is a blend of British, Australian, and other. There are instructors and examiners from all over the world. Each country and each individual brings with them a slightly different view on how to train. It's impossible to standardize the training as a result of these deep cultural differences. Fortunately some of the worst cultures of training tend to be kept out of the training department at Emirates. There are a few exceptions, but by and large it is a very good group of guys.
The one complaint that comes up a lot is checking versus training. Many trainees feel that they are being checked on each and every training event. To an extent ( maybe even a large extent ) this is true. Again, that is cultural. Culture meaning country background of the instructor and cultural meaning the way it's been done at Emirates for many years. There have been positive changes to that in the last few years, but there is still a long way to go.
All events are graded. That's just the way it is. That bugs a lot of people. myself included, but it's not going to change. Grading is from 1-5. 1 being unsafe and 5 being very good. 3 means "could be improved". A grade of a 2 is the only way we can get more training if someone requires it. So those grades can be quite common to see because the training program is set to the minimum required. If someone needs a little more help a grade of 2 has to be given or they won't get the extra help ( sim session, flight, etc ). That is demorilizing to a student who is working hard, but still struggling. Yet, it's the only way under the current system for the instructor to help the student get the extra training. Trainers can get a bad rap over that, but their intentions are often times good.
What can really get frustrating is standardization. In training you might get one guy who insists you do it "this" way and then the next day you get a new guy who criticzes you for doing it the way you were just told. This problem is known, but so difficult to tackle. We can resort to the book and what it says, but then we get "cultural" difference in how to interpret the written English word. Practicality sometimes get thrown out the window with certain cultures because they must follow the exact wording of the procedure ( or their interpretation of it ).
Typhoonpilot
That said, training at EK is different than most airlines in the USA. Training is much more serious and the student's are held to very high standards.
The initial training progresses at a very reasonable pace. There is about 3 weeks of generic training when you start. Stuff like dangerous good, crm, human resources, etc. It gives someone a chance to get a head start on the systems and procedures study if they choose to make use of that extra time.
Key point there. I highly recommend guys come to EK alone for 3 months if possible. It's not always possible if there are children involved and it's the start of the school year. If it's the middle of the school year, leave the kids and wife at home and come to EK alone to start. That saves a lot of time and hassle of dealing with settling the family in Dubai while you should be concentrating on training. The other thing that can wait is shopping. Just live a bare bones lifestyle for 3 months. Don't go out shopping for Cars, TVs, stereos, . Just get the essentials done and then start studying.
The type rating training starts with CBT for systems. There is very little class room discussion on systems. Another key point, there is no type rating oral on systems. This is a big difference in training. All you'll get is a 100 question multiple choice test on systems at the end of the CBT/Fixed base training. Your type ride ( or skills test as we call it ) will only have a couple of questions that are more than likely operational rules or how to perform a specific manuever. So there is no need to memorize the exact function of every switch on the overhead panel like you might at a U.S. airline. You can if you want, but nobody is ever going to ask those type of questions.
A far larger emphasis is put on procedures and flows. So prior to fix base training ( IPT in the B777 ) one really should get in depth into the FCOM normal procedures to get the flows down pat. The verbiage also needs to be exact as that is the requirement.
A lot of the training is self study. You are expected to have the self-discipline to study on your own and come to each and every training session prepared. There is no spoon feeding of information ( which U.S. airlines tend to do ).
The flying part in the simulator is pretty easy. In fact, the skills test, is simple. Unlike a type rating ride in the USA, on a skills test, under the CARs you can repeat up to 3 items. For example. You screw up the V1 cut because you're pitch control is not good ( nerves maybe ). You can do it over. If it's good on the second try, it's still a pass. Procedures and management will be looked at more closely than on a U.S. type ride though.
When line training starts, it is very different. Line training covers a lot of areas for new hires. They need to see the different areas that we fly so they'll get trips to Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. There will be ETOPS, HF Radio, CPDLC, and lots of stuff that some guys have never seen before. Again, a lot of self study and preparation is required for each and every flight. A trainee is expected to study the route and all the alternate airports along it so that they have a good idea where to go in an emergency. There are tools provided in the LIDO charts and OM-C, as well as online for that study. A syllabus is provided for points to discuss in cruise.
Of course there is the flying the airplane part as well. A lot of technique gets shown in line training. Much of it comes straight out of the FCTM so that book becomes much more important for line training. It's a lot more work than line training in the USA.
The training culture is a blend of British, Australian, and other. There are instructors and examiners from all over the world. Each country and each individual brings with them a slightly different view on how to train. It's impossible to standardize the training as a result of these deep cultural differences. Fortunately some of the worst cultures of training tend to be kept out of the training department at Emirates. There are a few exceptions, but by and large it is a very good group of guys.
The one complaint that comes up a lot is checking versus training. Many trainees feel that they are being checked on each and every training event. To an extent ( maybe even a large extent ) this is true. Again, that is cultural. Culture meaning country background of the instructor and cultural meaning the way it's been done at Emirates for many years. There have been positive changes to that in the last few years, but there is still a long way to go.
All events are graded. That's just the way it is. That bugs a lot of people. myself included, but it's not going to change. Grading is from 1-5. 1 being unsafe and 5 being very good. 3 means "could be improved". A grade of a 2 is the only way we can get more training if someone requires it. So those grades can be quite common to see because the training program is set to the minimum required. If someone needs a little more help a grade of 2 has to be given or they won't get the extra help ( sim session, flight, etc ). That is demorilizing to a student who is working hard, but still struggling. Yet, it's the only way under the current system for the instructor to help the student get the extra training. Trainers can get a bad rap over that, but their intentions are often times good.
What can really get frustrating is standardization. In training you might get one guy who insists you do it "this" way and then the next day you get a new guy who criticzes you for doing it the way you were just told. This problem is known, but so difficult to tackle. We can resort to the book and what it says, but then we get "cultural" difference in how to interpret the written English word. Practicality sometimes get thrown out the window with certain cultures because they must follow the exact wording of the procedure ( or their interpretation of it ).
Typhoonpilot
02-16-2012, 10:12 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: CRJ-700/900 Right Seat
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
It's called a P2 type rating, which is for first officers. P1 is for captains. The P1 and P2 can be transferred to an FAA certificate as an SIC rating. The only way to get a full type rating on the FAA certifcate is to go through an FAA approved course then take a type ride.
Typhoonpilot
Typhoonpilot
02-17-2012, 07:03 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: The Far Side
Posts: 968
Originally Posted by filejw
TP ..If you ever come home you will find that most the US airlines training is pretty much as you described above and has been for a few years. Its called APQ.......Nice post
Yeah, things have changed a bit. A good AQP program is as well-balanced a setup as I've come across. You can still get one hell of an oral or type ride, but what used to be PC's are now more of a learning experience - at least if you come prepared.
Now, Typhoonpilot, blending British and Aussie anything might be really fun to watch.
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