First allow me to say that it is great to join your community, and take part in a truly international network of professionals.

For my fist, post, I want to explore the FAA-JAA conversion topic, from a different point of view. Myself, just like hundreds or thousands of other fine FAA pilots, am considering converting to EASA at some point down the road, once I get my ATP and some turbine time from regional flying racked up (I currently hold an FAA CPL and teach as a CFI to stay afloat).
I've done a great deal of research and reading to get the overall idea of how the conversion process works and what is needed, for each specific certificate level, and that is pretty straightforward.

What I've rarely seen addressed however, is once this costly and rather lengthy process is over and you have your license in hand (say UK CAA Frozen ATPL), is it ultimatelly worth it? Will it get you anywhere? Specifically, will you (at least most of the time) be viewed as an equal candidate if you were to apply for a flying job, shoulder to shoulder with another guy (a citizen of that country) who has the exact same qualifications as you, with the only difference being that his entire training was completed under JAA? Or, is there a chance you will generally be viewed as a second class applicant in the EU because you were never initially certified under JAA? I ask this not only because it still seems too easy for national job protectionism to suddenly stop once you have an official license but also due to the fact that I have rarely come across a reply on the conversion threads from someone who did his FAA-JAA, and was actually able to secure a job.

While I am also an EU citizen, and right to work would be no problem for me, I still can't shake a certain feeling of insecurity that once getting my JAA certificates in order, will I really be viewed on a professional level as an equal to some JAA licensed "thoroughbred"?

I guess this question is not at all about the race of the converted applicant, but rather the "race"/origin of his/her's professional training. Knowing from personal experience how close knit Europe is in terms of "underground professional connections" when to comes to getting many jobs (especially in aviation), will this be another point "they" can be picky/selective about, even if you have achieved all the requirements to a successful conversion?

Looking forward to your views or experiences,
Cheers

 

If you convert to a JAA/EASA license then you will be treated the same as a "thoroughbred".

The main issue you will have is the language barrier. For most airlines in Europe, you'll need to speak the local language.

An advantage of having the JAA license is that many airlines in Africa, Asia and and the Middle East base their licensing system on the JAA system, so they often favour pilots with a JAA license over an FAA license.

The 'underground networks' in European airlines do exist, but their 'power' is in decline as Human Resources departments have increasing amounts of control over the entire recruitment process. Most pilots I know who got jobs for European airlines did so through the normal application process.

 

I did the FAA/JAA conversion and was one of the first candidates selected .. don't expect any problems.

 

I have also done a FAA-JAA conversion, quite recently. I am now working as a JAA FI.
Plenty of guys have done the conversion and found work in Europe. If you have a JAA license, then it means you met the same standards as all the other JAA CPL holders.

Having said this, Toasty alluded to the "underground networks" of airline hiring. Particularly, in the UK, they seem to frown on folks who have "unorthodox training". For example, you start hearing folks talking about "Completing ALL training" at one flight school for "continuity" and "known product". You also hear of people in the UK frowning on training done in other countries even though they are JAA members, such as Spain, Italy, Greece, etc.

As an FAA to JAA convertee, you won't be at that much of a disadvantage, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. If you get some airline experience, you will be at quite an advantage to be honest. There are quite a few wet CPL holders with 250 hours who think they deserve to be in the right hand seat of a 737. If you show up with dual given, ATPL, turbine time, airline experience, you will be way ahead of a fresh 250 hour CPL holder (except for those underground drug deal hiring schemes which were referred to earlier).

Also, once you have 500 hours on a multi pilot aircraft and an ATP, you can convert directly to a JAA ATPL.

 

Airlines in Africa, Asia and the Middle East do not favour any pilot licence over any other pilot licence, and they do not all base their systems on the JAA. Saudi and China for example are based on the FAR's.

Having worked for carriers in both the ME and Asia, having written the ATPL exams (I hold eight licences), I have a bit of insight.

 

Wow;
I am definitely taking in with open arms this large does of enthusiasm you guys have just given me. I am especially glad to now also know/heard of someone actually working there. All that's left is to tread the road of patience (and money saving) that will lead to conversion, well, patiently.

on a side note,
I did not know of Africa basing their training regs/standards on JAA, should that really be the case. I know of two former colleagues during my training that through an obscure amalgam of validation/conversion were offered 737 FO jobs in Namibia and Cameroon with just their FAA certs.

Interesting nonetheless

 

I said MANY of them are based on the JAA system and OFTEN those airlines favour the JAA license holders over the FAA. I didn't say ALL of them. Just last year I was contacted about a job in Africa in which the airline would only accept a local or JAA license.

In addition, one of the airlines that I used to work for had to put non JAA license holders through additional courses and exams before they could get their local licenses. Since this cost the company more and took more time, they preferred to recruit JAA licensed crew.

 

Can't say I agree with this. These "drug deal hiring schemes" you are talking about are more of the norm rather than exceptions now days. In Europe the hiring is very much driven towards those willing to pay for the type and/or linetraining at rather low compensation rates. Those guys/gals with 1000+ hrs plus and more may find it harder to get hired simply because they think their experience should count for something while a majority of the airlines no longer (unfortunately) seem to value experience. This is especially true for those who do not yet have the hours to qualify for a captain position.

And yes, I have had my European license before it became JAA, and now obviously EASA.

I am getting close to 6000tt with mostly PIC time and probably wouldn't get a second look for most SIC positions at airlines in Europe.

 

Yeah, most low time guys who don't do a sponsored integrated training program also are not getting a sniff at a job either.

 

Hi Toasty, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. I just hear that type of chat and at times it appears either eurocentric, if you will, or just put out there to white wash prospective non-Europeans; ppruneish, if you will. MANY though. . . I disagree.

My only experience with Africa is through friends who have flown there and none of them are European, but that was in the South. As far as Asia and the ME, nobody cares. I'd have almost assumed they preferred people with Latin American tickets for a while.

But this is off point. I'm sure Oxford will happily take anybodies money and get them a JAR licence.