Netjets vs Flexjets
 

The companies seem really similar but NJ has an upgrade of 12 years and FJ has upgrade of 3 years. What are the pros going to Netjets vs Flexjet??

I'm curious what research you have done that indicates both companies are similar?

Upgraded in 2 years here. One guy in my fleet joined a year ago and got upgraded. Your information may be outdated.

Ya know, there’s Hertz and then there’s not exactly.

That applies here.

Can you guys share some insight? Thanks

I wouldn’t listen to any NJA pilot on what is better. Most NJA pilots think they are better than everyone. They have also been fed lots of propaganda and anti Flex rhetoric so all NJA pilots base their opinions on that.

Agree that listening to anyone on which is better is useless. Gather as much info as you possibly can on both companies and weigh the things you value accordingly. Maybe make a list of the top 5 things that you value in the job prospect and break down a comparison. There are plenty of folks on here from both operations that can give you detailed insight.

I heard FedEx and Wheels Up are similar too.

NetJets and wheels up are closer.

Ya know, there’s Hertz and then there’s not exactly.


So NetJets is “not exactly”..
Is that what you’re saying?

There have a been a few new hires at Flexjet that left for Netjets.
I know of another that is now going through the Netjets interview process now. He said he was lied to by the recruiter and is going to move on to Netjets.

I don’t know of any Netjets pilots who left and went to Flexjet.

Good luck

Not exactly.

Union vs. Non-Union. Huge cultural difference. "Merit" based upgrades vs. seniority based upgrades. If you're not an "A-Teamer" you'll also be a 12 year F/O at Flex. No recourse if fired vs. having an arbitration procedure. Having a Union Rep with you if called on the carpet for some reason. And as of now we have pretty good relations between the Union and Company.

Also NJA has great medical insurance for which we pay nothing and have no annual deductible to meet (in network). Office visits are $20 period. ER and/or Hospital admission is a flat $150. And this is for you and your family. And we have a nice Medical Leave program, 6 months at 60% pay then 30 months at 60% capped at $5K/month. And the Union has an optional Loss of Medical plan that kicks in after the 36 months and pays until normal SS retirement age. I think you can get up to around $8000/month coverage that's tax free.

And keep in mind Flex has resorted to cold calling and sending out postcards to pilots in an FAA database trying to get enough warm bodies. NetJets can still be a little bit picky and hasn't had to do that. Our minimums to get hired are also substantially higher than Flex's.

A year ago after retiring from the airlines and taking some time off, I started looking at the fractionals. Netjets and Flexjet were both great companies and I sent both my application. Pay and benefits were a bit better at Netjets but Flexjet had two big attractions, dynamic leadership and clear growth plans. The positives at Netjets were stability, deep pockets and a bit better pay and benefits. I did what I've always done and I went for growth and opportunity, the course of action that has always served me well.

Flexjet had about 600 pilots with plans to hire 170 in the next year while Netjets had about 2400 with plans to hire many more but percentage wise much less. Flexjet hired me quickly and I went there. While in training, Netjets called and I politely thanked then for the opportunity to interview at a great company, but that I was no longer available.

Now, less than a year after starting, I missed a phenom captain slot by only a few numbers and probably could get one on the next bid. The merit based promotions here are only in the Red Label program for the big equipment, hence for new hires it is strictly seniority, which currently is running about 1 year for upgrades if you are interested in flying the phenom. Many SICs on the larger aircraft are not bidding captain on the phenom and will have longer upgrades.

For potential new hires at both companies, keep in mind that both companies downsized heavily during the 2008-9 market crash and have only recently started hiring. When people talk of 12 year upgrades, bear in mind there are virtually no 3-11 year upgrades due to the many years that there was zero hiring. Both companies are great companies.

Dynamic leadership is code for a seniority disrespecting, B scale paying, stolen valor Frank Lorenzo starter kit.

There’s a lot of good people serving under that “dynamic leadership”, but it literally is all the worst parts of the aviation industry management parading around in an over tanned packaged.

Bring knee pads to dallas.

Didn’t Netjets Furlough, but Flex Terminated?
 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t NetJets furlough their pilots in reverse seniority order, contractually, where Flex fired them, not necessarily by seniority, and made them re-apply for their jobs and start back at first year pay?!?!:mad: You can tell a lot about the character of a company by the way that they treat their employees when times get tough.

Those pilots will now technically have to check YES to “Have you EVER been TERMINATED by an employer on online applications that can filter for accident, incident, violation, no college, etc.:eek: A similar travesty happened at XOJET in the Great Recession (or Depression if you were furloughed or terminated somewhere), who actually handled things way worse than Flex...

Netjets pilots retained longevity for salary and vacation eligibility too during the furlough.

[QUOTE=B727DRVR;2813980]Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t NetJets furlough their pilots in reverse seniority order, contractually, where Flex fired them, not necessarily by seniority, and made them re-apply for their jobs and start back at first year pay?!?!:mad: You can tell a lot about the character of a company by the way that they treat their employees when times get tough.:confused:


You need to do your homework. For starters, after the great recession and the furloughing, two companies, Flexjet and Flight Options merged under the Flexjet name. Which company are you referring to when you say Flex fired them,

Yes, Flexjet did terminate. I know, because I was one of them. It was in reverse seniority order, as it should be. I did receive a severance package. That was while Flexjet was owned by Bombardier. Under Ricci, who know how it would be handled. I would almost guarantee you it wouldn’t be in seniority order and no severance package. Everyone needs to realize that Flexjet exists in name only. Ricci just slapped the Flexjet name on the Flight Options package.

[QUOTE=Starlifter335;2814074]You need to do your homework as you have little idea of what happened at either company prior to your retirement.

He’s speaking of Flex furloughing after the recession, and while it was done in seniority order some individuals were not recalled or rehired though willing when the operation resumed normal staffing.

Upgrade at FJ is faster because attrition is so high. It turns out, most want to leave for either the airlines or NJ. Sadly, those long term FJ pilots are pretty much the dregs. Too bad.

Don’t get it twisted, the ONLY reason NJA is hiring at all, is attrition.

Yes, there is some attrition at NJ, but it seems to be mostly at the SIC level. It's low when compared to FJ. The problem at NetJets is, if you're a PIC going to an airline doesn't make economic sense. I know a few who had large airplane envy who left for the majors and took a huge pay hit.

The NJ union has negotiated an unbelievable pay and benefits package.

It's only a good kind of unbelievable when compared to other fractional operations.

When compared to legacy carriers, some LCCS, FedEx , or UPS ...it quickly becomes the bad kind of unbelievable.

Only after many years. Then you'd need to make much much more to make up for all the years at lower pay. You would need to have a lot of money saved, or accept a lower standard of living till the major pay caught up to and exceeded NJ, plus at the majors medical coverage for you and your family can be expensive where at NJ it's included in the CBA. It makes economic sense to leave for a major only if you're a new SIC.

FWIW, flying big airplanes doesn't make your junk any larger. Ask me how I know.

This is nothing more than rhetoric. If you work 18 days a month at any major right now you’ll make more than an NJA captain working the same days a month.

Hell, I’ll make more than the FO payscale goes to, including all the incentive pay, and I’ll do that on year 3 pay with 17 days off a month.

The pay argument is hilarious. The only ones at NJA making real money are management pilots extending a bunch.

Compare it to other fractionals. You can be a captain at flex in 2 years, that’s more than a 10 year FO at NJA makes.

Maybe. But as much as a vulture capitalist as Uncle Warren is, I’d take FO at Netjets over PIC for that scumbag KR any day.

I'm seeing a 2 year Flex Phenom Captain gets 463 per day.

182 days worked at 463 a day - Flex Capt is 84266.
182 days 7n7 worked by a 10 year NJ sic is 102000
182 days 7n7 worked by a 10 year NJ pic is 145000
182 days 7n7 worked by a 2 year NJ sic is 67000.


What am I missing in this base pay comparison? I don't see how what you said works ?

Clearly if the two year upgrade holds... FJ would pay better than NJ with the decade or longer upgrade.

That's great that you'll be making 200K with 17 days off per month as a year 3 FO. 1,450 credit hours is a lot to pack in to 13 days per month, so that is great to hear that so many credits flow freely. You must be so content with your decision to move on that you spend your time.......posting on threads about your former employer instead of your current company?

As to NJA vs Flex, one needs to decide what's important to them, learn as much as they can about each carrier, and weigh the pros and cons of each against that list of important items.

For example, one might look at a certain operator, whose pilots just voted to abandon having union protection and an enforceable pilot contract, and decide if that will be beneficial to them in the long run.

I’m not saying I’d ever work there, I’m merely showing that pay at NJA isn’t some intergalactic marvel.

Somebody has to stop people like you from inflating NJA pay to make it look like the place to go from a salary standpoint. A comparison was made to the airlines versus NJA pay, I merely shed light on that. And please make no mistake, no airline pilot works half as hard as an NJA pilot.

NO, you need to do YOUR homework.....
 

[QUOTE=Starlifter335;2814074]
Wow! That’s a helluva 5th post on APC. Congratulations on your 5th post milestone and welcome to APC. And I appreciate your passion and intensity: I couldn’t find an Emoji for Frank Burns snittyness, so I just made your response bold.... If only you were right.......:p

Sorry that you didn’t like the message, but I didn’t have to do any homework because I was there in the Fractional trenches in 2008-2009 and saw the carnage at Flex and XOJET firsthand. Netjets and Options had a union with a written FURLOUGH policy, while Flex did not and TERMINATED their pilots accordingly. Flexjet TERMINATED, Netjets FURLOUGHED with Seniority Longevity for Pay and Vacation rights... Like I said respectfully, please correct me if I am wrong.....

I wasn’t, and you didn’t.

Oh, and thanks for your respect to a fellow aviator, LOL. When you get that Phenom Captain award, I would hate to be the FO who had to tell you that you were 1 dot low on the glideslope...:cool:

So, you are going to make 200K while getting 17 days off as a year 3 FO, right? I was being happy for you, that's good money and a good schedule.

"Hell, I’ll make more than the FO payscale goes to, including all the incentive pay, and I’ll do that on year 3 pay with 17 days off a month."

Your words, right?

100% WRONG.

I was a 12 year Capt at NetJets and pulled the ejection handle. Second year FO pay at UPS was 235k. More than I EVER made at NetJets.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QOL
 

I’m an 18 year former FJ pilot who pulled the rip cord and I have not missed that place once. I’m making a little less (I will be back to previous $ with first pay bump), but I am much happier. Don’t just look at $$$, also look at QOL.

I left that place because of 13.5 hour days, airlines every trip (multiple) because they can’t keep proper staffing levels and “Red Label”. (A joke). I recently spoke to a friend who bragged about what they paid him for a day of OT then complained about How much he was working?

If you’re thinking long term go NJ. If you need to build time FJ will work. QOL is almost as important as compensation. (Just this grey haired veteran’s opinion)

[QUOTE=OhSnapAF And please make no mistake, no airline pilot works half as hard as an NJA pilot.[/QUOTE]

My wife ,a SWA pilot, just LOL , sorry , I couldn’t resist. Carry on : )

You fly twice as much at SWA than NJA but perform one quarter of the work. Short duty days, relatively long overnights and no circadian shifts make all the difference in the world.