60% of the retirement gone, and then see if you can think of anything that happened between 2001 and 2008 that maybe set their retirements back as well. I’m not going to throw shade at them as they worked in an era where pensions were the norm. That military retirement created from the 60s-80s isn’t JR money either.

Yes, I was at a Delta wholly owned during the bankruptcy. I know all about it. And yet, not every former Delta pilot found themselves at a frac to make ends meet during their golden years. Wonder why that is?

Different people. Different circumstances. Just assuming they made bad choices is overly simplistic broad brush to paint with. No doubt some did.

You had me at 5 and 6 weeks of vacation. I had no idea.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

You are SO incredibly cute! Bless your heart!!

Now, we need to back up a bit and get our ducks in a row, mmmkay? First of all, this thread wasn't NetJets specific. It is "Legacy Airlines vs Fractional. All I was doing was listing things you will no longer be doing as a pilot at a Major/Legacy. You seem really hung up on this lav issue. I understand NJ no longer has internally serviced lavs, but there you are in your Phenom/Excel(which I'm typed in both), cleaning it up and making it pretty. Making sure the sh!t paper is stocked and there are no peanuts stuck to the bowl. Again, and I'll use my big red crayon for you so it's easy for you to understand, I was only listing things you won't do as an airline pilot. That is all. Was me saying :"You got a fax for three-oh-five-queue ess" what led you down the lav-obsessive path? All I'm saying is, as someone whose done pretty much the same job as you for 12 years prior to me joining the airlines a little over 6 years ago, is that you don't realize the extra bullsh!t you you do do until you no longer have to. It really does add up! I see that you have less than 1 year at NJ, so I'm guessing your previous 121 time was at the regionals? Nothing wrong with being customer service centric, though. Next time you're on your hands and knees, crossing seatbelts and picking up what Joe Rich-Guy dropped, you keep telling yourself "For me, the pros and cons favor private aviation". So darn cute I just wanna squeeze your cheek!

I'm flattered that you feel that way about me, but I'm happily married and not that way inclined.

Go find someone else's cheek to squeeze.

This is you specifically referencing NJ. Talking about being "down on your knees, so to speak."

What did I miss, other than the fact that you're here again with another alter ego username, still butthurt about NetJets. For God's sake, get a life, Jetlife!

I think it’s funny how some people are so hell bent on proving they have the objectively better job. Just because you do less manual labor on a daily basis does not mean you have an objectively preferable job. Some people are fulfilled doing things that aren’t the same as you and some don’t seek to absolutely minimize their workload. Some do and that’s fine. I think the gist of the thread should be, it depends on your desires and priorities, not MY JOB IS AWESOME AND THOSE FRAC DUDES ARE ON THEIR KNEES lmfao. It’s a subjective discussion, despite what some may wish for whatever reason.

Just take a peak at United’s TA. Fractional never have and never will keep up with the majors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What are the details of the new TA? I didn’t realize the released any yet. Have a link?

no. It’s all rumor at this point.

Right now it's just an "Agreement in Principle" so a lot of details have to be finalized. Of course rumors are flying, as usual.

Ahhhh, thanks.

Well, I grossed North of $350k last year-on par with a senior SWA pilot. Hotel points (as in never have to pay for hotel rooms again), airline miles, fuel perks, commute on company time and dime with no jump seat issues or crash pads from over 200 bases, and tips from owners who actually like to fly add up to a significant bonus on top of gross pay. Not to mention 4 weeks of vacation after 10 years on property adds up to a total of 84 consecutive days off (21 days for each week’s vacation) the schedule each and every year. Oh, and zero insurance premiums. Add it all up and I’ll bet fractional compares to most carriers. It wasn’t always like that, but effort with a strong union paid off handsomely.

How many days did you work for the year?

On the CC72. Yes, more days than many, but no commute days on my time/dime takes up to 6 days off/month my away time from home compared to airline folks who commute on their time.

So you averaged about 21-22 days/month of duty with a seniority of 18 -20 years?

You're gonna have to spell it out for my dumb 121 self. :p I know the 72 is 216 days, right? But with vacation, personal days, etc...what was the final tally for the year?

I'm not one to flex about my job - I'm absolutely happy for you if your situation is better than mine (not at SWA, but AA). Just curious how it all shakes down in the end - I figure the more I know about everyone else's situation the better off I am about making decisions about mine.

216 scheduled workdays, minus 28 vacation days, equals 188 actual workdays (plus any VEDs, less any PTO days). That averages to 15.7 workdays/month on the “busy schedule”. The “senior schedule” is 156-28 or 10.7 average days/month.

Lots of airline guys don't commute, never have, and never have spent one night in a pad.

yeah u made as much as a senior SWA FO last year. But last year is a outlier for everyone. Definitely not the norm and not the average. Those senior FO also gets 4 weeks of vacation! Because our upgrade is sooooooo long!!!!!

No. CC72 is an 18 day/month schedule. We do trimester scheduling. Extra days pay 2.5 times daily rate now. My gross has minimal extras.

You're not including retirement, correct?

Our retirement is lacking compared to the majors. Much of it is up to us individually. Last year company matched our 401k contributions at 58% to include the catch up. We also get non discretionary contributions of 1/3 of our flight duty pay up to the legal limit. FDP is paid at $145/hr for block time exceeding 10 hours in any tour in addition to base pay, and is the same for both PIC and SIC. FAs also receive it, but not sure what their rate is. My contribution in total was the legal limit for individuals. Company match and non discretionary contribution about doubled that. Not bad, but not as good as the majors.

My maxed voluntary contribution was more than doubled by the company last year.

Interesting - thanks. I live in base so things are pretty good, but there may be a day that my wife's job will force a move requiring a commute, and depending on what my new reality looks like I figure it's worth investigating other avenues. The CC52 is more my speed - living in base has spoiled me for being home 20+ days per month - but commuting will obviously put an end to that flexibility.

I made the most I have ever made last year but that includes the $30K signing bonus and 10 extended days for 25K. Being on the 7/7, I still came up short for the combined total a company can place in your 401K. Now, extended days are getting hard to come by. I have been denied 3 times. The bonus is over. Meanwhile, the pace is terrible combined with other times you airline after giving up an airplane or it breaks. One tour can be 30 hours FDP and the next 16 hours FDP. Also, we work so much harder due to all the duties we carry. There is no turning left with us. The flying is fun and I enjoy the ferry legs, but we work so much harder and the constant schedule flip and on demand schedule does wear you down. Also, we top out at 4 weeks vacation where the Legacy carriers get 6. Now with the confirmed space for your commute and the 19% DC, unless you really love our flying or want to live in a very remote city, you will make so much more money at a Legacy carrier and the work pace is so much less. Due to my age, I am stuck a NetJets, but if I was young, I would be gone. 30 plus years at a Legacy carrier will net you so much more money and less stress. It is almost comical listening to Legacy carriers complain about their work pace. They have no idea 135 duty regs allow for.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

Pretty much.

AA max vacation is 5 weeks. 16% contribution and no help getting to work. Grass is always greener.

TC

How does sick or PTO time work at AA? Do you get more with seniority like with vacation time? Can you bid to use it as PTO? Just curious if this is another plot of green grass at the majors. At NetJets we all get 12 PTO days a year in the sick/ PTO bank. We can cash unused out at the end of the year or bank up to 75 I believe. We can use up 12 per year as PTO days, but we have to bid for them and don't know until the month before at the earliest. The company can also charge more than one PTO day for a day off if it is a busy day for the company.

Cant speak for AA but at WN you accrue 10 percent of your monthly earned straight credit into a "sick bank" aka, whatever bank. Maxes out at 1600 TFP(1392 hours) but you can use it whenever you want. No advance notice or bidding required. An average 2 day is about 14 TFP and a 3 day is about 20 TFP so there's that. You cannot cash it out if you leave or retire...

UAL gas 6 weeks, but 5 is still better then 4. We have no DC and I would take a 30 plus year DC over our 401K match. Besides, if the UAL TA raises it to 19%, AA will be next and I wouldn't be surprised other contract items too. The Legacy carriers can boot strap off each other.

At NetJets, we get compared to Wheels Up, FlexJet, and other 135 carriers by the mediators in past bargaining. It most likely will always be the case. The only way it will get better for us if new hires leave for the Legacy carriers but that isn't happening yet and this company is extremely slow to react to anything. Talking years.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

Everyone gets 60 hours per year, and it rolls over from one year to the next. It's not *supposed* to be used as PTO, but it's generally used as such at AA without worrying about getting called out on it.

Thanks for the answer. NetJets actively monitors for sick day "abuse". If you call in directly before or after a vacation, that is pretty much an automatic carpet dance now. The union has warned us that they actively look for "patterns" and the vacation thing was the biggest pattern.

That is true but we do a have a PTO bid for days off and it works pretty good. For example, you could PTO over this Memorial Day weekend. Plenty of days available. The issue more deals with them unable to cover last minute sick calls, hence why the really want you to bid it off under PTO. This can't be used last minute unfortunately without incurring a higher burn rate.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

No PTO. Rarely, you can drop a trip for vacation. But, I haven’t been able to do that since last year. Even turns and 2-days are getting tough to drop.

If you really need off, call in sick. Sad but true. Now, even EO (family emergency) has to be a legitimate “my kid is in the ER” reason. No house closings or I need to take my dad to the doctor reasons cut it.

TC

That sucks. Sounds like most companies are stretched to the limits by demand and that at least some are clamping down on any absences any way they can to keep the wheels from falling off. I don't see it getting any better this summer.

If you try hard, you can drop your schedule down to zero at AA. Not easy but many do it, not super either. You can bank (instead of bidding a date off) vacation days to get paid for dropped trips, (which are mainly days trip and weekday 2 days as of late)

Does anyone have a picture/map of FlexJet Domiciles?

https://www.flexjet.com/careers/pilots/

bottom of the page