Not sure how close to FSD or FAR you are but both are bases at NJ.

If it's worth anything I spent about 2.5 years at OO in MSP and half of it was on CRJ reserve and I live about an hour south of MSP, so it's doable, not fun but doable, now I'm just through indoc at NJ, waiting for Sims.

What about 1 leg commute for a ULCC (Spirit) for 2-3 years compared to being home-based at a fractional (XOJet, WheelsUp, RedWing, Flex, etc.) The end goal is a legacy airline. I just wonder if the ability to be home based, fly a jet earlier, and make better money earlier than would be better for QOL?

How old are you?

What about all the screen names you and the 251 knot Phenom guy went through getting banned every other week arguing over Airlines versus NetJets?

If you want to fly airlines, then fly airlines.

I'll be turning 31 in a few months.

That is awesome. You can give the fractional life a try and if you decide it isn't your cup of tea, you can try whatever else you want and have many decades to do whatever it is that works best for your personal situation. This is the best time to be relatively fresh in aviation since the early 70s. Just don't wait too long to pull the plug if you have doubts since basically every job worth having is seniority based. Good luck!

That was my exact thought process, thank you!

This is what I'm looking at doing. What do you think the likelihood of being offered the job following the NJA expo? How many are they hiring out of there? They recently started interviewing people without ATP-CTP done (me). Not sure if I should knock it out and bet on myself getting the job or wait until I get a CJO from NJA. Not going to lie, a little nervous flying a jet simulator when all my time has been piston. 700hrs dual given, 200 hours multi, 50 TW, about 90 instruments, TT at 1000. I do have a lot of confidence in my interview abilities, and I feel like I have a lot of supporting attributes that make me competitive (military, business owner, etc). Biggest thing is I don't want to get my hopes up and pay for ATP-CTP then not get the job.

You are in a great position at this time in history. You can build time in a different environment than the regional grind and pilot recruitment realities have blunted the anti-corporate, anti-135, and anti-fractional bias of the past at major airlines.

But I would encourage you to target one or two major airlines immediately and work toward that goal. Good luck at NJ. You're going to need it.

Not sure how many they are hiring from expos. Everyone I talked to and remembered from mine ended up with a cjo including one person with 0 turbine/turboprop time. In fact there was one person in my indoc class who came straight from CFI'ing.


If it were me, Id wait to schedule the CTP class and wait to see if you get it, considering how many regionals will pay for it in their training program. Upside being you dont lose $$$ and they have been offering classes out a couple months so in that time you could complete a CTP course and then have the certificate and written deficiencies report for your oral.

There is a very high percent that are offered a job from the big meet and greets. I wouldn't spend any money on the next rating until the job is offered since other opportunities will be happy to pay if you don't end up with an accepted offer at NJA. Just come prepared and it should fall I'm your lap.

I never did the regionals because I specifically wanted to avoid them. I would much rather be at NJA than a regional, although the pay and QOL changes at some regionals absolutely rival NJA if you are using it as a temporary stepping stone to a legacy/major. I would much rather go to NJA as a career move. If you know you want to go legacy/major I would personally recommend the regionals but also don't set yourself up for a terrible commute and hate your life. Set yourself up for the best QOL even if it means getting to your career destination later than usual. You will get to the finish line, enjoy the ride as much as possible along the way.

You may find you get to NJA and you love it so much you never leave, or it will solidify your desire to leave. Regionals are regionals, you don't have to go to a regional to know whether you will like it or not, it is 100% a means to an end.

Commute vs not commuting is the big question you should ask when comparing NJ to a major. I loved my time at NJ but the
lack of schedule control was the big push for me to leave. My two hour drive north to LA now isn’t great but isn’t bad and ultimately for my situation far outweighs the benefits of staying at NJ. If you live within a couple hour drive of your major of choice’s Domicile it’s a no brainer when comparing the two. If I was outside that two hour drive or living somewhere with a garbage commute, I would of stayed. Now that I’m gone and on 5 year pay the schedule, pay, retirement and overall job quality I have now is much better than had I stayed. I always like getting the texts from my buds still there and how much they made Last year as 14 year fo’s and how much they worked to make that. I just bite my tongue and say congrats and tell em they deserve the money finally. Good luck to hose having to make the choice!!

Couldn't have said it any better, I can echo these sentiments. I will say, commuting is also very relative.

At NJA I was SFO then OAK based. Sometimes it would be a 1 leg flight down to LAX to grab a Phenom and start the tour. Somedays it would be a 2 or 3 leg airline flight across the country, then an hour car ride. Was it a guaranteed seat on the airplane? Yea. Was it the cheapest ticket NJA could book? Yea. Was it nearly as stressful as commuting except you knew you would have a seat? IMHO yes. Granted, I would never want to work for a company that I would not move into a domicile and choose a transcon commute and NJA will always be less stressful than having to do that. But when you compare having to work 19-20 days a month at NJA to even come close to what you make at an airline working 13-15 days a month, having a commutable schedule at a legacy and having a reasonable commute (3 hours or less on company metal would be my personal metric) would actually have you home more days a month on average.

I would pick a life of commuting if the commuting was reasonable, over being home based at NJA. Most of my NJA classmates that left, also commute in some respects (a couple are at FedEx and they get an airline stipend). But if you live in BFE and plan to stay there, and NJA serves that airport I would think very seriously about choosing that as a career.

Another thing to hopefully look forward to is that commuter policies are getting more competitive at the airlines and I think we will see improved commuter clauses, positive space on company metal, hotels etc.

Even if it's a two-flight leg to pick up your plane and start your trip, that would be part of your 7 days you are on, correct?

That is correct. All scheduling and pay/overtime rules apply. I once made four daily rates (2.5 for an extended day plus 1.5 for working a holiday) to do a 2 hour airline and go to the hotel.

Yes it would 100%.

7 on 7 off gets you around 15 days on, 15 days off (clearly varies a couple days here and there given the number of days in a month) and is fairly comparable to most airline schedules per month. If you compare that to an airline schedule, major and legacies will edge out compensation compared to NJA. Add in the fact that upgrades right now are significantly faster at every major/legacy aside from SWA your compensation goes considerably higher, quicker. Where you start making better money is if you do 76 long tour schedules at NJA which could potentially put you at 20 days a month (with an 18 day month the following) but averaging around 19 working says a month. Airline schedules once you get a couple years in, start to get pretty decent in terms of being able to get what you want and manipulate it to suit your needs with again, 13-15 days a month.

The bottom line being, if 19 days a month at NJA starts getting you to where your compensation starts to come close to airline schedules working 13-15 days a month, you can typically factor in commuting to those and still edge out the hardest working NJA schedule while making more money.

If money defines your definition of quality of life then yes. I think that’s why you get so much push back on here. Just an observation. Everyone’s definition of quality of life is not the same. Having a set schedule for a year in advance is worth the loss in income… for ME.

Biggest thing I'm looking for is stability and QOL with the potential recession. I've eliminated Endeavor since it's a two-leg commute. Any company I go to is a 1 leg commute. I have no jet time, so my eyes are set on NJA right now because better pay, stability, and increase QOL starting out. If I like it, great, if I don't sound like I still have legacies as an option. My other option is Skywest.

Money doesn't define quality of my life, my time off does and I get more time off now than I did at NJA. I get pushback on here because inevitably the topic of airlines versus NJA always comes up and NJA pilots simply don't like hearing somebody else's perspective. Those at NJA commenting on how terrible the airlines are, haven't worked for an airline in over a decade, in fact it's close to two decades.

The reality is, we should all want as much money as possible with the most time off. Right?

To me it comes off that money is the driving factor for you. Like I said just my observation. Not the first time I have been accused of misreading the room.

I think the same can be said about some airline pilots that don’t like hearing that the airline life is not for everyone. I have friends that are at the airlines and hear their perspectives all the time. They don’t feel the need to repeatedly tell me that their income and time off is better than mine though. They are just happy that I have a job that works for me.

Wanting the most money for the most time off is legit but knowing exactly what days off for more than a month ahead of time versus more days off is a trade I and others are willing to make.

I think you will find the ones that are the most vocal about how much the airlines suck and how much they are making at NJA (on the CC76 with extended days..no thank you) are the minority. The majority are on the 7/7 making a decent wage enjoying their time off.

He’s a hater… but he doesn’t know why is what’s sad. Since 2017, spewing hate and vitriol about a job he took freely but simply wasn’t a good fit.

There’s no harm in that on the surface but the years spent focusing on hate of the company that simply hired him and the pilots who work there still who have made NetJets our employment home filled with work family is truly time wasted on him.

Years lost.

…As I type this from my hotel at the Hilton, on a 17 hour overnight…

MinRest is the perfect example of someone who needs structure where there is none. He needs a schedule. He needs absolute order in his life.

There is nothing wrong with that but NetJets doesn’t provide those things to pilots who must have these things in their lives while working.

Pilots who work here develop the ability to be self sufficient and free thinking problem solvers.

We have deep keels.

MinRest knows he’ll be at in LAX at 1700.

PS. We have seen some pilots (younger pilots) coming to NetJets from first and second tier airlines. NJA simply appeals to them more.

Do airline legs count towards your FDP for a tour or does that only include legs that you operate?

No, only when operating a flight does one accrue FDP.

No actually. If that was true everyone would want to go to UPS or FedEx even though those guys shave years off their lives. Some aspire to be the richest guy in the cemetery, others try to avoid AIDS (aviation induced divorce syndrome) and a stressful commute certainly doesn't help in that regard.

You get pushback on here because you continue to spread lies with your petty grievance that you just can't let go. 3 leg airline on day one from a major hub like OAK or SFO? Nonsense. The company wouldn't risk the missed connections and having you stranded at the airport. You generate revenue flying NetJets aircraft, not sitting in the back of an airbus.

pretty accurate summation EXCEPT for legacy pay “edging out” netjets, flex jet etc. the difference is substantial and shouldn’t be minimized in a comparison discussion.

Is this where we all start whipping out W2s?

Any National Guard / Reservist in here currently working for NetJets?

"Excuse me while I...whip this out."

Seemed appropriate. Johnson measuring and all.

What's your total time if you dont mind me asking? I saw NetJets recently lowered their hiring minimums and just wondering if people are starting to interview at the bare minimums of 1500 hrs?

They dropped the bare mins to 1000 or so hours now for those that went to the university pilot factories. There have been pilots hired straight out of flight instructing lately.

There’s no such thing as stability and QOL when **** hits the fan. I will say a regional airline is the worst in a recession, followed by fractional and corporate flying, but plenty of major pilots got the screw job multiple times. Figure out your actual goals and make a plan to get there.

Agreed. I was trying to be nice.

Blah blah blah...

Says the guy who keeps getting kicked off the NJASAP message board for being a lunatic. Why were you kicked off this time? Complaining that you can't extend even more than you do now and that you want more money? Do they no longer let you extend 25 days a month so you can no longer come on APC and try and W2 flex? Poor guy...

NJA absolutely does NOT have pilots leaving first tier airlines to go there lol. You literally have CFI's with no turbine time getting CJOs to NJA posting IN THIS THREAD. Stop the lunacy.

Wait, are you saying that you don't want the most amount of money with the most time off possible? You think people like working more for less money? Get real, people want the most time off with the most amount of money possible. Why else would you want anything else?

Not everyone is wired the same way as you. Some settle for less financial gain if it means no commuting. Others may trade less time off if it means not constantly flying on the back side of the clock, which is detrimental to your health. Didn't you just post that the 7&7 schedule is roughly the same time off as a legacy? I'm amazed you slipped through the cracks during the interview process at NetJets. They're usually pretty good at filtering out the "delta bravos."

How much does an average legacy 737 or 320 captain make on an average schedule? I know it isn't found just by multiplying the hourly rate by 1000 and the W2 thread on the majors board doesn't make it easy to guess anything close to an average. I'm sure it is considerably more than a NetJets captain on the 7&7, but the average on the 7&7 is now around 250K with 0 extra days. Work day for work day I'm sure the legacies blow NJA away, but those who are willing to work more than the 7&7 average really do make quite reasonable money now, though they are definitely earning it. I would have a hard time believing a captain on the 76 day schedule would make less than 300K now, even without a bunch of extended days. The pilots who crank out the extended days are making real money. I recently flew with a Global captain who was over 300K by the end of June. That is not the norm, but it is real. I would personaly go for the legacies if I was young and they are probably a better choice for the vast majority, but to pooh pooh the money that one can make at Netjets now isn't right. It is there and it is real. It just takes more work to get it.

Heard from many sources too they're starting a pilot pathway program with UND too. Not sure what that means/entails however.

They are starting programs and doing all they can to get the word out about NJA at all the big schools. The amount of growth they want to do will require many thousands of pilots. I still believe they are going to have to pay way up to get enough pilots and keep them for at least a few years. They haven't given out many facts other than that they are ramping up the recruitment and that they are dropping the mins.