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Missed Appch 11-13-2018 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsaw (Post 2707796)
You guys shouldn't be so worried about voting this down and whatever losses you incur of the next 6-10 months before you get a new one.

75 mil bonus will become 125 or 150 and you lose nothing.

What you get is something you can live with for the next 5 years... 5 years. Think about that.

Trust me if you vote this down. More will leave and the app pool will be barren. MGT will be begging to pass the next one when they park planes rolling off the assembly line.

I agree. Absolutely worth the risk to me.

therapysession 11-14-2018 05:51 AM

If we agree now that there is such a thing as ULCC pay and solidify with Spirit, we will never get out of that perception. The pay rates now don't last 5 years of the contract they last....well...indefinitely. Every dollar less than average now is one dollar less in the next contract and the next and the next...

Flipadelphia 11-14-2018 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therapysession (Post 2708056)
if we agree now that there is such a thing as ulcc pay and solidify with spirit, we will never get out of that perception. The pay rates now don't last 5 years of the contract they last....well...indefinitely. Every dollar less than average now is one dollar less in the next contract and the next and the next...

exactly!!!!

PorkandBeans 11-14-2018 03:30 PM

Save your opinions, please
 
Let's see if we get enough reasonable time and answers after the proposal is presented prior to exhausting our emotional gas tank.

I believe the only discussion now perhaps should be inside your head.
Ask yourself how much your time is worth for the foreseeable future.

Time is more valuable than money? I think so. That's just me. Quality time reduces stress, so I choose time.

Nobody has ever been quoted saying from their deathbed, "I just wish I would have spent more time at work".

Study the proposal, tweak it, send it back for adjustment. That's just me.

I believe Biffle is under a strategic mandate from Franke. Using that business rationale may get us further than we are now, and I don't believe a lack of pilots has been much of an outstanding issue for either of these guys. Perhaps this is a twist we can use? That's all I'm willing to consider before the details emerge.

Thanks. Hang in there. Time is on our side.

PorkandBeans 11-14-2018 03:37 PM

Seniority
 
OOPS. I'm definitely not a new hire. Forgot that part when signing up.

wt93205 11-14-2018 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by therapysession (Post 2708056)
If we agree now that there is such a thing as ULCC pay and solidify with Spirit, we will never get out of that perception. The pay rates now don't last 5 years of the contract they last....well...indefinitely. Every dollar less than average now is one dollar less in the next contract and the next and the next...

Yep. It boils down to which pattern do we want to be in? Spirits or the rest?

Ohreallynow 11-14-2018 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wt93205 (Post 2708381)
Yep. It boils down to which pattern do we want to be in? Spirits or the rest?

A no will put us in holding.

Super EZ E 11-14-2018 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorboatin (Post 2705944)
So all you people on here screaming NO! You say you deserve better, you say, now all of a sudden, JetBlue is your new metric for comparison. You say; I want top rates, and I want LTD till I’m 65, and I want four weeks of vacation four times a year, and I want profit sharing, and I want more just because I’m a keyboard warrior and everyone else is saying it so I will too...peacocking and tailfeathering but guess what! The only thing more laugahable than your (hard, solid, strong, unified, definitive, major, or whatever other adjective you think makes) No sound more threatening, is the fact that you say you’re willing to continue at rates that are $100 below where you should be. You think magically that all of a sudden the union will be able to get you an extra $20 hour and make all your other gripes go away? Problem is, most here have had very unreasonable expectations. All gains and no changes. Thats not bargaining folks...read a book and do some reasearch. Most of the genius mathematicians on here use hypothetical numbers on napkins or spreadsheets that don’t even function. But gawddammnit, they think it’s real, so it must be!!!

Guess what, percentages matter, improvements matter, and your fragile egos do not. You are now making less than Allegiant and SunCountry! That's embarrassing. We are a budget carrier. We are budget pilots. We don’t work for the most exclusive and highly desirable airline out there. We work for a run-of-the-mill crappy outfit. Yes, we fly the Airbus and right now we fly it for max $166/hour. And you’re going to scoff at the ability to do it shortly for $245/hr?? That’s $80 and likely over $80,000/year, not including the fact that your 12% comes without having to sacrifice 10% of your hourly rate.

You want Delta, or JetBlue, or whoever else?? Go get hired there! Fact is, most of you that are trying, that can’t get hired elsewhere, likely will not. The world is a cold and dark place. You ever heard of not looking a gift horse in the mouth?? Honestly, I’m sorry you feel that you’ve been wronged or screwed by your union. Again, simple fact, they know more than we do. They will live and breathe this contract with us. They know the NMB will do nothing to help us get anything more than more unproductive sessions. There will be no strike! Don’t believe me, read some books, do some research as to what politically motivates people in DC. Who sides with labor?? LABOR. And labor doesn’t let labor go to self-help.

Take yourselves down from the self-righteously imposed pedestal and take a look at the reality of this situation. MAJOR IMPROVEMENTS! Is it everything we wanted? well No! Of course it’s not. But it puts me in the ballpark of where I need to be.

Well said! You should listen to this fellow Aviator! Another 9-11 happens tomorrow and the deal is off the table!! It will pass 80 / 20!

Gary et al 11-14-2018 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super EZ E (Post 2708410)
Well said! You should listen to this fellow Aviator! Another 9-11 happens tomorrow and the deal is off the table!! It will pass 80 / 20!

I will be one of the 240.

Wheelswatch 11-14-2018 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super EZ E (Post 2708410)
Well said! You should listen to this fellow Aviator! Another 9-11 happens tomorrow and the deal is off the table!! It will pass 80 / 20!

What if another 9/11 doesn't happen tomorrow?

Really? I should listen to that fellow aviator?

A sample:

"we are budget pilots"

"it puts me in the neighborhood of where I need to be"

"looking a gift horse in the mouth"

"they (the union) know more than you do"



These ridiculous statements are self evident.


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