Frontier Vs Spirit
08-14-2021, 11:23 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
I don't entirely disagree, but I do think that's pretty broad "one size fits all" advice. In my opinion, a lot depends on the OP's personal situation.
The "millions of dollars more" would primarily be a function of both a good number of years as a widebody captain and profit sharing. Profit sharing in any large quantity will likely not be seen for a long time, and depending on the OP's age, they need to determine how many years they'd likely spend in the left seat of a widebody. They also need to ask themselves, at what point would they transition to a widebody captain spot? At the first available opportunity, or sit on narrowbody captain pay for a good number of years until they could hold a line? Are they even young enough to ever be able to have a chance to make that decision?
Also, we're not out of the covid woods yet and business and international travel is still severely depressed. It's looking more and more like international travel may not recover for a very long time. If covid doesn't shake itself out in the next year or so, I don't think that some furloughs at the big 3 could possibly be out of the question. Of course that could apply anywhere, but considering the domestic demand, I would feel far more comfortable at the bottom of the list at someplace like F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.
It all comes down to life situation and adversity to risk for the OP. If they are young, unmarried/married without kids, and okay with rolling the dice on the possibility of being a furlough casualty then I would definitely say to go for United. If they have a few more gray hairs on their head and will likely never be a widebody captain for a good number of years (if ever), have kids and financial responsibilities at home, and want something slightly less risky then I'd say go for Frontier (the driving to work part is huge).
It's all about personal situation, not an all encompassing answer.
The "millions of dollars more" would primarily be a function of both a good number of years as a widebody captain and profit sharing. Profit sharing in any large quantity will likely not be seen for a long time, and depending on the OP's age, they need to determine how many years they'd likely spend in the left seat of a widebody. They also need to ask themselves, at what point would they transition to a widebody captain spot? At the first available opportunity, or sit on narrowbody captain pay for a good number of years until they could hold a line? Are they even young enough to ever be able to have a chance to make that decision?
Also, we're not out of the covid woods yet and business and international travel is still severely depressed. It's looking more and more like international travel may not recover for a very long time. If covid doesn't shake itself out in the next year or so, I don't think that some furloughs at the big 3 could possibly be out of the question. Of course that could apply anywhere, but considering the domestic demand, I would feel far more comfortable at the bottom of the list at someplace like F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.
It all comes down to life situation and adversity to risk for the OP. If they are young, unmarried/married without kids, and okay with rolling the dice on the possibility of being a furlough casualty then I would definitely say to go for United. If they have a few more gray hairs on their head and will likely never be a widebody captain for a good number of years (if ever), have kids and financial responsibilities at home, and want something slightly less risky then I'd say go for Frontier (the driving to work part is huge).
It's all about personal situation, not an all encompassing answer.
I'm at one of the LCCs and would recommend this place (or similar brands) to anyone. I don't have my apps out anywhere else because the quality of life here is so good. That said, in this particular instance, the only reason I'd recommend give an edge to United is that they're hiring 12,000 pilots over the next decade. That, in itself, should insulate you from a long-term furlough. This advice becomes exponentially less relevant each year.
HOWEVER. Living in base is a game-changer for time at home and the ability to pick up premium flying if you want the money. If your aspirations were narrowbody captain at United, I actually think Frontier is a better deal in your situation.
I think TOGALOCK's analysis on COVID and what that may mean for carrier's with a large international exposure is very wise. I couldn't have said it better.
08-14-2021, 11:28 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: F9 FO
Posts: 370
Originally Posted by P8ASW
I appreciate the thought put into your response. Age is a significant factor as I’m already 45, wide body captain may not ever be in the cards for me at United. Additionally, I have 3 kids at home and I think Frontier would give me more days around the house…
08-14-2021, 12:35 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 628
I assume you’re in Florida. I’d hate to tell anyone not to go to a legacy, but this seems to fit the bill. Commuting is the devil, but a lot of our ancillary benefits/contract language is sub par. Prob can’t go wrong either way though, good luck!
08-14-2021, 07:16 PM
#14
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by TOGALOCK
I don't entirely disagree, but I do think that's pretty broad "one size fits all" advice. In my opinion, a lot depends on the OP's personal situation.
The "millions of dollars more" would primarily be a function of both a good number of years as a widebody captain and profit sharing. Profit sharing in any large quantity will likely not be seen for a long time, and depending on the OP's age, they need to determine how many years they'd likely spend in the left seat of a widebody. They also need to ask themselves, at what point would they transition to a widebody captain spot? At the first available opportunity, or sit on narrowbody captain pay for a good number of years until they could hold a line? Are they even young enough to ever be able to have a chance to make that decision?
Also, we're not out of the covid woods yet and business and international travel is still severely depressed. It's looking more and more like international travel may not recover for a very long time. If covid doesn't shake itself out in the next year or so, I don't think that some furloughs at the big 3 could possibly be out of the question. Of course that could apply anywhere, but considering the domestic demand, I would feel far more comfortable at the bottom of the list at someplace like F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.
It all comes down to life situation and adversity to risk for the OP. If they are young, unmarried/married without kids, and okay with rolling the dice on the possibility of being a furlough casualty then I would definitely say to go for United. If they have a few more gray hairs on their head and will likely never be a widebody captain for a good number of years (if ever), have kids and financial responsibilities at home, and want something slightly less risky then I'd say go for Frontier (the driving to work part is huge).
It's all about personal situation, not an all encompassing answer.
The "millions of dollars more" would primarily be a function of both a good number of years as a widebody captain and profit sharing. Profit sharing in any large quantity will likely not be seen for a long time, and depending on the OP's age, they need to determine how many years they'd likely spend in the left seat of a widebody. They also need to ask themselves, at what point would they transition to a widebody captain spot? At the first available opportunity, or sit on narrowbody captain pay for a good number of years until they could hold a line? Are they even young enough to ever be able to have a chance to make that decision?
Also, we're not out of the covid woods yet and business and international travel is still severely depressed. It's looking more and more like international travel may not recover for a very long time. If covid doesn't shake itself out in the next year or so, I don't think that some furloughs at the big 3 could possibly be out of the question. Of course that could apply anywhere, but considering the domestic demand, I would feel far more comfortable at the bottom of the list at someplace like F9, NK, B6, WN, etc.
It all comes down to life situation and adversity to risk for the OP. If they are young, unmarried/married without kids, and okay with rolling the dice on the possibility of being a furlough casualty then I would definitely say to go for United. If they have a few more gray hairs on their head and will likely never be a widebody captain for a good number of years (if ever), have kids and financial responsibilities at home, and want something slightly less risky then I'd say go for Frontier (the driving to work part is huge).
It's all about personal situation, not an all encompassing answer.
08-15-2021, 01:12 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: CRJ Left/Right
Posts: 151
Originally Posted by P8ASW
I appreciate the thought put into your response. Age is a significant factor as I’m already 45, wide body captain may not ever be in the cards for me at United. Additionally, I have 3 kids at home and I think Frontier would give me more days around the house…
Cheers
08-15-2021, 06:00 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Happy
Posts: 683
Can you explain the “boat load” more at United for me ? If he has 20 years left by the time he is in the left seat and maxed out at Frontier on the 320 is 270/hr. Anything over 82 hours is 125% plus 15% DC. 17 at United. So a 95 hour credit line for a maxed out United 320 Capt and a maxed out frontier 320 captain would be close. Roughly 26.8 vs 24.3 / month plus a 2% DC difference. Not marginalizing that, but not a “boat load “.
I am not saying you’re wrong but you are assuming his WB command at United into the equation here I am guessing but before he gets there that would be years of ca pay at F9 he would be missing out on. Again, not saying your wrong. Interested in your numbers that’s all.
You'll retire at both with a lot of money. Do what’s best for you and your family and where you want to be during the next outbreak.
United is a fantastic airline.
I am not saying you’re wrong but you are assuming his WB command at United into the equation here I am guessing but before he gets there that would be years of ca pay at F9 he would be missing out on. Again, not saying your wrong. Interested in your numbers that’s all.
You'll retire at both with a lot of money. Do what’s best for you and your family and where you want to be during the next outbreak.
United is a fantastic airline.
08-15-2021, 06:08 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Happy
Posts: 683
Originally Posted by Anon1212
while I don’t disagree with anything here, I will say one thing…. The only airline in that list that furloughed anybody last year was actually F9, they just didn’t call it a furlough — COLA0
08-15-2021, 06:56 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,392
United gets 16% DC, not 17%.
In March we get to 15% so we will only be 1% behind them. Living in base and being able to pick up a premium trip a couple times a year is more lucrative than commuting to United
In March we get to 15% so we will only be 1% behind them. Living in base and being able to pick up a premium trip a couple times a year is more lucrative than commuting to United
08-15-2021, 06:58 AM
#20
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2013
Position: P-3C, T-44C, T-6
Posts: 40
Thanks to everyone who has commented, it’s all good feedback.
From a longevity standpoint, do any of you think Frontier may be a bigger risk than United over the next 20 years?
I figure if both made it through the first round of COVID, either should be safe. Curious your thoughts?
From a longevity standpoint, do any of you think Frontier may be a bigger risk than United over the next 20 years?
I figure if both made it through the first round of COVID, either should be safe. Curious your thoughts?
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