Originally Posted by buzzer (Post 3408892)

I'd like to see that math. If true then F9 would be wiping UA off the map in the U.S.

Originally Posted by Aero1900 (Post 3408922)

Frontier casm is 8 cents, United is 14 cents.

But United generates a lot more revenue per passenger

Originally Posted by buzzer (Post 3409031)

How much more revenue and how much on the A320 plus load factor is at least what else is needed to do the math I guess. Comparing airline CASM isn't enough.

Originally Posted by DumboDrop (Post 3409102)

Wat?

CASM is the industry standard on measuring cost.

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 3408771)

... pulling up the numbers from the 2021 annual reports
F9
CASM 8.10
RASM 7.67
UAL
CASM 14.36
PRASM 11.30 (passenger RASM)
TRASM 13.79 (total RASM)

I'd use UAL's PRASM, but they also have quite a bit of cargo revenues which is why the TRASM is 2 1/2 cents higher than PRASM. I couldn't find any cargo revenues in F9's annual report.
Both F9 and UAL are losing money on every seat mile flown, but F9 did a bit better than UAL in 2021 (.14 cents better per ASM)

I expect UAL's CASM to fall a bit in 2022 due to cuts in express flying. UAL didn't break out express numbers, but in previous filings, express CASM was considerably higher than mainline CASM.

RASM for both airlines should rise in 2022. UAL has the advantage of international markets opening up and a marked increase in business travel (based on what Delta stated in their Q1 earnings release). From Delta's earnings release:
Business travel recovery boosted by improvement in corporate: Domestic corporate sales* for the quarter were ~50 percent recovered, with March improving to ~70 percent versus 2019. International corporate sales for the quarter were ~35 percent recovered, with March improving to ~50 percent versus 2019. Internationally, Transatlantic improved the most as European countries reopened.
• Premium cabin revenue recovery outpacing Main Cabin: Premium products continued to lead the recovery with Domestic premium revenue approximately 100 percent restored to 2019 levels in the month of March. Domestic and Latin premium product revenue recovery outpaced Main Cabin by approximately 10 points during the March quarter.

Neither F9 nor UAL have posted Q1 earnings yet.

As another RASM comparison, in 2019, F9 had a RASM of 8.92 and UAL had a TRASM of 15.18 (PRASM of 13.90)

Yes, F9 has a considerably lower CASM. But they also have a significantly lower RASM.
I could post that UAL's RASM is almost twice as much as F9's RASM, but it doesn't tell the full story. Same for just talking about CASM.

Originally Posted by buzzer (Post 3409031)

How much more revenue and how much on the A320 plus load factor is at least what else is needed to do the math I guess. Comparing airline CASM isn't enough.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3409109)

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or stupidity. It's an irrelevant stat without also understanding RASM. It's like trying to understand the value of a company knowing only the stock price at close on a Tuesday. Meaningless without more information.

Originally Posted by DumboDrop (Post 3409138)

That wasn't the question. Cost was the question at issue.

Originally Posted by buzzer (Post 3409031)

How much more revenue and how much on the A320 plus load factor is at least what else is needed to do the math I guess. Comparing airline CASM isn't enough.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3409156)

The post you responded to was about more than cost, and he was right, save the single comment about load factor. Otherwise he was spot on.