F9 vs WN
 

I've hemmed and hawed about whether I should make this post or whether to make a decision on my own, whether to post this in the F9 or the WN forum, and how exactly to ask this. I have class dates for both airlines for late February and it's time to make a decision. When I received the offer from WN I thought it would be an easy decision but in the process of exercising due diligence the questions of overall compensation in short and longer term scenarios, QOL, and which airline could get me to United faster have given me pause. I’ll try not to put an excess of data in the initial post, so here are some bullet points.

• WN contract negotiations are making it tough for me to make an informed decision about relative pay, but the difference in upgrade time makes F9 look very competitive if I stay 3-5 years. The sign on bonus… can’t decide how I feel about that.
  
• I am short on PIC time at 350 hrs. Faster upgrade could get me an interview at UA quicker. On the other hand they might never call either way.
  
• I know I shouldn’t look too hard at bases, but central FL and bay area CA basing is important. WN has super senior MCO CA base but then apparently F9 FL bases aren’t necessarily that junior either with PHX and LAS in the mix. I’m actually looking at PHX in the medium term time frame but I don’t really want to get stuck there right out of training.
  
• Then there is culture, public perception (meltdowns, govt fines) performance metrics, and other things hard to measure, and I don’t have a crystal ball... Not a calibrated one anyway.
  

I feel like this post looks as disorganized as my thoughts are…

Has anyone here at F9 actually chosen it over WN?

I would be surprised if you make it out of training at either spot without UA calling. What are your total times?

I wouldn’t leave Frontier for WN but I don’t think I could ever choose Frontier over WN. Pretty much for every reason possible.

Hmmm... maybe.

Southwest Upgrade time is longer
Southwest flies a signifisignificantly less comfortable airplane
Southwest happy employee/employer relations are long gone

WN. Oak is junior (not sure where you’re trying to be in CA tho). At F9 our pairings have recently become more efficient and our reserve utilization is way up. They’re trying to do what WN does. The problem is that WN pilots make more than us on any given day because of their rigs and reassignment pay. I’m on 9 year CA pay at F9, I have a friend that’s right seat at WN (around 5-6 pay). I compare schedules often lately, and he generally works a similar number of legs/duty time as I do lately but credits 2-4 hrs more per day.

WN will get a new contract sooner than later and it will be light years ahead of F9 in compensation. F9 hasnt even opened contract negotiations yet. They’re throwing $50k bonuses at new hires circumventing the contract and trying to strong arm people into staying 3 years. Expect F9 contract negotiations to drag out over years for an underwhelming deal the continues our reign at the bottom of the industry.

If your long term goal is UAL, take the class at WN and start building more 121 time with that 737 type. You’ll make more money and UAL will call you much faster than going to F9 and waiting 3 or so years to upgrade.

I know all that sounds pessimistic in regards to F9. Just trying to be real. F9 isn’t a terrible place to work and there are good things about this place. But if I were in your shoes I’d go to WN and keep the app updated at UAL. Worst case, you get stuck at WN and have a better career than you will at F9

I you live in, and will never in your life, move out of LAS, DEN, MCO, I would go Frontier.

both are single type airlines
both are LCC or ULCC business model
both you can make a crap load of money as a Captain
neither are perfect
both have brand new or near-new airplanes coming
1 is Airbus, 1 is 737
1 offers 4 year or less upgrade, 1 does not

If you live in or near, and will never move out of, OAK, FLL/MIA, LAX, MDW, DAL, HOU, SAT/AUS, (Texas or Oklahoma in general), I would do SWA

my opinion

I think WN will always have superior pay and work rules, while F9 will win in total seniority and Airbus (although there are fume events). I think it would come down to relative base seniority depending on where you want to live if United doesn’t call.

Live in DEN, pick WN. Live in FL/ATL, pick F9. Etc.

BufordT Justice , I'm at about 4500 TT, 2000 part 121 turbine and the 350 PIC under 121. I've been hearing the 5000 hour mark mentioned for both UA and WN so hopefully a call is right around the corner especially once I get the internal LOR I have uploaded

UA hasn’t called you yet? I personally know someone that has about 2500TT, around 1000 turbine, and 0 turbine PIC that just received a cjo from UA

Uh 2018 called and wants its competitive times back.

5000tt and nonzero 121 tpic is plenty for ua/aa/dl/wn