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- - F9 vs WN (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/frontier/141284-f9-vs-wn.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brickfire (Post 3576647)

Uh 2018 called and wants its competitive times back.

5000tt and nonzero 121 tpic is plenty for ua/aa/dl/wn

This. I heard from United with 4k TT/ 2k+ 121/ 500tpic. That's now "over qualified"

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyinRyan95B (Post 3576299)

I've hemmed and hawed about whether I should make this post or whether to make a decision on my own, whether to post this in the F9 or the WN forum, and how exactly to ask this. I have class dates for both airlines for late February and it's time to make a decision. When I received the offer from WN I thought it would be an easy decision but in the process of exercising due diligence the questions of overall compensation in short and longer term scenarios, QOL, and which airline could get me to United faster have given me pause. I’ll try not to put an excess of data in the initial post, so here are some bullet points.

WN contract negotiations are making it tough for me to make an informed decision about relative pay, but the difference in upgrade time makes F9 look very competitive if I stay 3-5 years. The sign on bonus… can’t decide how I feel about that.
I am short on PIC time at 350 hrs. Faster upgrade could get me an interview at UA quicker. On the other hand they might never call either way.
I know I shouldn’t look too hard at bases, but central FL and bay area CA basing is important. WN has super senior MCO CA base but then apparently F9 FL bases aren’t necessarily that junior either with PHX and LAS in the mix. I’m actually looking at PHX in the medium term time frame but I don’t really want to get stuck there right out of training.
Then there is culture, public perception (meltdowns, govt fines) performance metrics, and other things hard to measure, and I don’t have a crystal ball... Not a calibrated one anyway.

I feel like this post looks as disorganized as my thoughts are…

Has anyone here at F9 actually chosen it over WN?

Tough choice… never would I have thought that back in the day this would be a conversation but that kind of goes to show how much SWA leadership has mismanaged the place.

Both are kind of **** shows right now. If you want quickish upgrade potential and a good plane to fly then F9. If you don’t mind most of a decade in the right seat of an ok airplane the maybe SWA.

Contract wise SWA is probably still ahead of F9 by a cycle.

You mentioned United… they’re pulling applications of SWA guys for interviews while they’re in indoc currently. Not sure what the lead time for Frontier is.

Ultimately you’re going to have to go to the one you think you’ll be best at if you get stuck for the rest of your career. I don’t think I’d leave F9 for SWA or the reverse, but I think I’d have to go to SWA just because it’s a more established company. I’d probably agonize over the choice for a bit before pulling the trigger though.

Ill preface this by saying I work for WN, not F9. The WN forum bunch will say go to F9. The F9 bunch says go to WN... If you're gonna jump go where would be ok with being stuck for 10 years.

Lots of discussion about both pilot groups. Do some good reading.

Under 40………
get on a legacy list whilst there is still opportunity to have #s below you.

Whatever you can do to not commute. Also consider seniority and company growth. I’ve been at WN for around 6 months and have nearly 800 pilots below me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalco4 (Post 3576508)

I think WN will always have superior pay and work rules, while F9 will win in total seniority and Airbus (although there are fume events). I think it would come down to relative base seniority depending on where you want to live if United doesn’t call.

Live in DEN, pick WN. Live in FL/ATL, pick F9. Etc.

WN having superior work rules?? What? Am I missing something? They get constantly extended into days off and fly 4+ leg days on a 737. They do have more reserve days off though, but I am pretty sure our work rules are superior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spooldup (Post 3576869)

Constantly getting extended? No.
Ymmv, but its happened to me once in 4 months. Premium pay when and home by noon the next day when I got JA’d, so for me it wasn’t a big deal. And there’s the option to select a compensatory day off in its place.

We do work harder overall, but more days off.

There are 4+ leg days, but not always.

Always always always pick the best/smartest mgt group - regardless of the job. In the end, you will be happier.

Don't forget F9 furloughed employees out of Covid and WN did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFly (Post 3576831)

Whatever you can do to not commute. Also consider seniority and company growth. I’ve been at WN for around 6 months and have nearly 800 pilots below me.

That’s every company and the percentage is what’s important. If you were hired in June at F9 you would have 361 beneath you. 82% RS. I don’t know how many pilots are on at SW but I assume at least 8000 so you’re at 90% RS?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpso (Post 3576648)

This. I heard from United with 4k TT/ 2k+ 121/ 500tpic. That's now "over qualified"

How long was it from app submission to hogan?