“With our newly announced out and back schedule, our operation has become increasingly more efficient.

While we're happy the new model is working so well and has been well received by our crews, it has in turn reduced the size of our new hire classes. Unfortunately, at this time, you have been removed from the February class and placed in our pool.“

lol, well received by our crews!?

Yeah that’s not true 😂 I can’t tell you the amount of people I’ve talked to that said if this sticks they are headed out the door with the first call from someone else.

This is kind of upsetting. Not good at all. I guess this means they've determined that with the new business model less crews per airplane are needed? So, attrition no longer matters for awhile? I guess upgrades will slow down even more.

attrition has been light this month but in reality that should be expected. Who wants to sit in new hire class during the holidays. That letter is one lie after another, they are being short sighted by the low attrition this month or it’s yet another month of extremely poor management in the training dept. I’m guessing a little of both

Sucks now but in the long run I see this as a win win. More bases means less commuting (and hopefully greater credit/duty ratio). Instead of the inefficient 10hr 2 day that credits 7 hrs day 1 then 3 hours day 2, there will be more 5.5/6/6.5+ hr 1 day turns. More credit/day equals more days off. The company saves from less crews per plane and less hotel costs.

Transitioning will be painful but once in place will be better IMO when there are bases in 15-20 different cities (Baltimore, Cleveland, Raleigh, Charlotte, Cincy, Chicago, San Juan and maybe even San Fran, Fort Myers or Detroit).

It was my understanding that this new model is not yet fully implemented so I don't know what they mean by "working so well". Sorry to hear that you're back in the pool, doesn't make sense as we have new airplane deliveries in Q1 and a boat load of people leaving every month.

That is not encouraging at all. I have a signed class date for March, and am headed to Denver for compliance in mid-Jan. Wondering if those who got the email for the Feb class date were in similar boats or not. I signed on in June.. Not super enthused here.

What is this going to do to upgrades? That is the last weak thread keeping me here.

Welcome to aviation. Good news is we are still hiring but just a reduced amount it would seem.

Anybody have an update for the class size that started the 18th? With only 16 spots on the bid sheet I would be surprised if it was more than 20.

While it’s very early yet we are starting to see some trends. F9, NK, UPS, FDX slowing or no hiring. I’m sure there are others.

last I heard it was 15-20 planned.

SWA reduced their hiring outlook for 2024. From 1800-2000 in 2023 to 900-1000 for 2024.

Seems like the legacies hired fat and now they will grow into it. F9 can't keep pilots. So, my guess is we will shrink somewhat reducing class sizes. That should do wonders for movement within the company.

NK is very clearly because of their engine issues. I've heard they will be down 25 planes by this time next year.

UPS and FDX, in my opinion, are actually right sizing and have pressure from Amazon. They grew like mad during Covid, and now they are fat. Plus Amazon has been building and building this whole time, and are doing a lot more on the ground and in house with DHL, Atlas, and all those small cargo outfits. Again, my uneducated opinion.

F9, on the other hand, no idea. With bases popping up and aircraft coming pretty quickly next year, who knows.

Ya I figured NK was 3-500 pilots overstaffed when I heard the affected airplane number. Pretty wild.

I was listening to 121.5 podcast today and they had one of the career/interview prep guys on talking about a slowdown in the churn. These numbers are total guesses but we were seeing 1000 pilots a month, sans regionals, with job offers before and now we are probably seeing closer to 700. Maybe just a couple of major airlines slowing down is all it takes to start allowing everybody to catch up? Definitely still a great time to be a pilot.

Thats it. It isn't fully implemented... not even close. 3 bases went down in % of 1 day trips, only ONE base is above 50% 1 day trips, and that is DFW at 62%. Next closest base is ATL with 47%, but that is one of the bases that went down like 1% from December. The rest of the bases are all below 45%.

Oh, and that "commuting base" called MCO according to BB is down on both 3 and 4 day trips, and even then, only at 20% 3 days and a WHOPPING 1% 4 days.

They aren't hiring for today. It takes 3-4 months to get someone through. They are anticipating what the need as far as crews for April/May.

Times have definitely changed (and will again I am sure)

Without question the fastest way to upgrade is to get hired at UA,AA,DL and upgrade there!

UA.

filler.

I don’t see the implementation. Looking at the bid sheet for January ATL is still 50 percent turns and 50 percent multi day trips. Whoever wrote that memo is talking out their a**! 😂

Yeah we’re getting hit with the expanded Pratt inspections that just got announced they’re planning on us being over staffed this summer due to it.

I don’t disagree and think they know something they aren’t telling us yet. Day trips being more efficient don’t account for this much reduction in hiring. Do you have any updated article that mentions it?

I'm pretty sure they said the increase in day turns would be by spring. So we definitely seeing it reflected in pairings yet.

Right now, isn't our fleet only about 30 Pratt powered planes out of 130+ fleet?

25/136 to be exact. So we should almost double our P&W fleet by end of next year.

Thanks.

That being the case, its hard to imagine Pratt engine inspections will cause us significant harm. And I'm still not sure if our motors will even need inspections at all?

The Pratt inspections are for engines produced mid 2021 and earlier. I believe all of ours are after that date and don't apply.

I find it hard to believe that P&W would sell engines to Airbus with a known defect and Airbus would just ignore that defect and deliver them to customers with a note:

"Congrats on your recent purchase of an Airbus A321NEO. Oh, by the way, your $130M aircraft needs to go offline immediately for inspections, because P&W continues to manufacture bad fan blades and we continue to sling those engines beneath our airplanes. If you have further questions please call 1-800-SUCK-ITT"

The issue was contaminated raw material wasn't it? Seems like they wouldn't continue using that material for new deliveries.

Meanwhile in OEB land….

Can't see the line. Can ya Russ?

What's the word? Anything?

nope not yet. We've been told to expect an update after the first, but technically that could mean anything from jan 2nd to dec 31 2024. So...

Cadets are receiving emails that February class has been cancelled.

The email I saw floating around said reduced size with cadets going back into a pool? But, you know, also said crews are loving day turns so…

I have confirmed the Feb class is gone, however they have been telling us that there will be news for the Feb guys after the first. I've also heard, (not confirmed) that a much larger part of the classes will be cadets moving forward.

Hate to point this out cadets, but what's a larger part of zero? With all the talk of unlocked efficiencies and unknown effects of GTF inspections I wouldn't get my hopes up. You know the saying "no news is good news"? Well...along those lines, usually when this management team gives us news it isn't good.

As a cadet, I completly understand what you are saying and have many of the same thoughts. I do believe at some point, Frontier will want to put the people to work that are costing them a thousand dollars a month.

Hahahahahahahaha
pretty insignificant amount in the grand scheme of things. Think again

Makes sense to fill classes with mostly cadets. Cadets really don't have much choice but to stay because they don't have any jet time and have restricted ATP's. The bonus didn't produce fruit the way they wanted and F9 definitely wants their money plus interest if you bail early. A friend of mine left and they demanded the money back pretty quickly.

Agreed but they do have a point. When given a choice I would hire the people that are costing me money first. I can’t say for sure but they also probably have less hours and are less likely a threat to leave in the near future than say an RTAG or resume washer new hire.

Very interested to see the January bid if class is indeed cancelled. It’s not going to be pretty.

These are the same guys who offered classes of 60, 50k to stay for 3 years. 1k a month isn't anything for them.

I would much rather see those bonuses and pay in our line pilot's pockets instead of trying to entice people to come here so they can tell us we have no staffing problems.