And a few years ago, Spirit was sitting on just over 1B in cash in the bank. Not exactly the best metric to use in this case.

Of course, ANY airline that has 1/2 the fleet go unflyable all of the sudden will NEVER have enough cash...

It’s not like that 1B dollars just got up and walked away.

little bit more to that story don’t you think? I’ll let you explain it. I’ll help you tho.

Start with the COVID lockdowns in 2020 and go from there. Everyone will wait for your response.

Nothing to explain, don't look too deep into what I said. Other guy made a blanket statement, so did I.

XoXo

literally nothing to do with it.

yeah I get it. More empty comments from a brain dead poster. What would this website be without it? You’re not wrong.

xoxoxo sweetie. HMU

No, not at all...

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...eo-2023-08-03/

No more sunshades?

Without them, cockpit temperatures are likely to become dangerously high, especially during summer operations.

This change will almost certainly lead to increased APU usage and higher fuel costs. Additionally, in the event of an APU MEL, many aircraft may be unable to cool adequately using only ground air, potentially resulting in delays or cancellations.

We operate in a lot of in hot weather bases like LAS, PHX, MCO, and SJU.

The business loses money on every seat mile flown currently. More miles more losses. Yes it would be more revenue but not enough to overcome the loses by operating them.

P&W pays the leases on those planes parked.

Ever notice Spirit is in no rush to get those engines turned around.

I had seen credits from P&W but I didn’t see comping the leases. Not in a position to look currently.

apu gonna be workin hard this summer! 85 and above is grounds for no boarding, just sayin

We use the APU in those locations anyway, regardless of sunshades, because ground air can’t keep up.

No one is going to refrain from using their Kinder Fluff in flight.

I do love how all of a sudden sunshades are such a big problem when theyve been in use worldwide for decades.

Care to share link/proof of P&W paying leases in full?

Small update to our contract negotiations in your email. Check it.

Yep. It looks pretty in line with that I was thinking we would end up with, not our first counter offer.

Lets give away the house while we're at it. Im seriously angry they already decided to give up on sec 25. To give up the trip trip percentage ask is asinine. The commuters are currently getting shafted. The shafting shall continue thanks to them giving up this ask. For those about to spout off about commuters and are going to say just move to base, that's not a valid argument. I live in base and dont want turns.

While the rates are attractive, #1 Zero chance we are anywhere near those rates when this is signed. #2. MRA had better be adjusted yearly until a new contract is signed. The way the term sheet reads, we get one last raise at year 3 then that's it. MRA/Snap up yearly at a minimum.

These rates are going to be a moot point anyway. All the legacies and WN will have new contracts by the time Barry gets forced to actually negotiate. With an unlimited supply 1500hr wonder pilots, there will be zero hiring issues and the union will never have any leverage during this these contract negotiations.

It is yearly. The "out year" portion in the first page points that out. We get the 27 rates, then it MRAs yearly until a new CBA.

I don't read it that way. I hope I'm wrong, but it appears to me that the 27 rates would be at the posted rate OR MRA. I don’t see any language that states MRA continues in perpetuity on an annual basis.

That’s correct. On DOS the rates are established. After that it’s cola. I’ll guess it’s 3% 4% 4%. Other agreements this round had a one time snap up for those that went early. I believe jb got one as well but it was a one and done. No airline is agreeing to potentially large/unkown changing labor cost contracts every year of an agreement.

Any updates on disability?

This proposal is exactly what I was worried about. Management has yet to make any serious offerings and our guys are already negotiating with them selves. My hope is that some adjustments can be made. Take a page out of Managements book and shuffle the numbers around with a modest increase over our previous proposed contract rates. At this point if we asked for a once a month ham sandwich as a raise they would still turn us down while whining about not being cost neutral. So there is no reason to forfeit anything. Until they show they are serious about negotiating and make some serious overtures asking for anything less than the Sun the Stars and the Moon is just pigeonholing all of us into concessions when thus far they have offered nothing of value.

The goal is to get released from mediation if management doesn’t get realistic in the near term. That will never happen with the strategy you’re suggesting. Now if you look at the counter there’s not a lot of cost gives in it.

No changes to any other alpa proposals.

I dont see any cola language either. We will get pay rates for 3 years then zero raises (for those of us on year 12 pay) until the next contract. I want to see some sort of snap up in there. I guarantee we are nowhere near $389 for 12yr CA rates at the end of this contract. It would be nice, however I give it zero percent chance of happening.

There will be cola. I’ve never seen an agreement without it. It’s how we went $240 DOS to $270 top captain last contract. And yes it’s possible we end up with a one time snap up depending on when we have an agreement. MRA is just language to protect proposed rates from industry increasing rates during the amendable period.

I'd rather we don't give up the trip percentage either. That being said, a majority of the pilots have indicated they prefer 1-2 day trips. The union reps are acting in the interests of the majority on this one.

Agreed. However, all that did was supply hotels for seat/domicile when they didn’t comply with the %. Point being they didn’t have to build those trips. Just supply hotels.

I certainly understand what you're saying and your concerns.

I think this is going to put pressure on the company to actually negotiate. The NMB is going to expect to see movement from the company towards an agreement. If they don't move towards us after this, it'll go a long said to moving us towards being released.

I think the union is playing this well. We need to achieve a deal as soon as possible. The sooner we can achieve a raise, the better off we'll be financially in the long run.

looked like full retro was the proposal? Didn’t see a percentage there but most anyone’s gotten is 50% I believe?

I don't know the history of what other airlines have achieved in retro.

All I know is that last time we got a "ratification incentive" instead of "retro"

It was a chunk of money given to ALPA by the company and divided amongst us based on ALPAs plan. It was not based on credit hours flown since the contract became amendable. It was equally distributed by seat and longevity.

Another point worth mentioning about it; it was a good chunk of money ($75 Million I think) but it was needed to satisfy issues from the previous contract and bankruptcy. The company and union had a LOA dating back to bankruptcy that said the company would negotiate pay raises if/when Frontier returned to profitability. Of course they never did that (shocking) and therefore had to sweeten the pot to get us to sign the new contract. I hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, for me, the ratification incentive maybe amounted to 1/3rd of what full retro would have been.

Agreed, there will be cola raises for years 1-11. Year 12 pay will see 3 raises during the duration of a 3 yr contract then no raises until a new contract. That's why i want to see a snap up clause if our peers get new contracts and we find ourselves $100 an hour less than our peers like we are now.

absolutely,

The proposal is a no vote from me. The legacies are opening their negotiations by the time this reaches a TA. All the while tariffs are increasing costs for everyday necessities. If frontier can’t afford to pay us what we are worth which is snap up current and future to the next contract cycle of legacies to be within 5% of the legacies then they need to change their management team. It isn’t our responsibility to be profitable it’s the C suite. They have a huge cost saving advantage and they can’t turn a profit. I’m not voting yes to anything less than what the legacies are making now plus 5-6%. It’s not like management could make a profit with those lower pay rates according to their current advantage or they should be making profit. They aren’t. It’s not our job. But we carry more passengers with cheaper labor all over the place and this company can’t make profit. So pay me til you fold or change management. No more concessions from the group. It does nothing for us. It obviously doesn’t help the business be viable. We may as well be paid for the stuff we have to put up with.

Wait a second. You've been talking non stop on this forum about how Frontier can't afford to give us any raise at all. We are a failing business and failing business model.

Now, your won't accept any raise less than legacies plus?

Crazy.

Also, did you not see that the union is already lowering our ask to less than legacy pay?

of course….the next CBA will be a glitter turd just like the last one 🙄

i don’t care if they can’t afford it. Pay me. Zero discounts on labor. Close shop or change. But pay my what I’m worth.

OK. Happy to hear that.

I don't want the shop to close but I want them to adjust to generate more revenue. And yes, pay me

You can't pay Barry 8 mil, allow him to run this into the ground, and then cry "we can't afford market rate for a major US 321 pilot"

Indigo is not going to change their hedge fund just so you can have the contract you like.

Indigo is private equity, they have controlling and minority stakes in companies. They have “Indigo Advised Funds” on aviation related sectors but they are most definitely not a hedge fund.