So what this next CBA going to look like
07-13-2025 | 06:21 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2024
Posts: 11
Likes: 4
When Indigo placed the massive 400 aircraft order back some years ago they negotiated a significant discount on the planes. When we take possession of a new aircraft we immediately sell it to a leasing company and then lease the aircraft from them for 8 to 12 years. When we sell it to the leasing company they pay market rate for the aircraft which is maybe 10 Million more than our negotiated discount price from Airbus. Frontier then pockets the $10 M and we begin making monthly lease payments on the aircraft
From 2024 10K:
Gains on Sale-Leaseback Transactions
The Company enters into sale-leaseback transactions for its aircraft and spare engine assets, whereby the Company sells one or more aircraft or aircraft engine assets to a third-party and simultaneously enters into an operating lease for a right to use such assets for a fixed period of time. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are recognized in the period in which title to the asset transfers to the buyer-lessor and the lease commences, as a component of other operating expenses within the Company's consolidated statements of operations. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are calculated as the excess of the sale price of the set over its carrying value. The carrying value of the assets sold will generally include the price paid for the asset, net of the amount of cash or the fair value of non-cash credits and incentives received from equipment and component manufacturers and any liquidated damages received from the manufacturer, the costs associated with delivery of the asset including any taxes or tariffs, financing costs capitalized in connection with the construction of the asset, capitalized maintenance and other improvements, and accumulated depreciation. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions may also be adjusted if it is determined that the terms of the sale transaction or the lease agreement are at a price other than fair value.
07-13-2025 | 06:47 AM
#22
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 139
On a very basic level, all this tracks. I guess what I really don't understand is the total effect of recent policy change and how that will affect us going forward. (i.e. 100% Bonus Depreciation, ~30% Tariff hikes, etc.).
From 2024 10K:
Gains on Sale-Leaseback Transactions
The Company enters into sale-leaseback transactions for its aircraft and spare engine assets, whereby the Company sells one or more aircraft or aircraft engine assets to a third-party and simultaneously enters into an operating lease for a right to use such assets for a fixed period of time. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are recognized in the period in which title to the asset transfers to the buyer-lessor and the lease commences, as a component of other operating expenses within the Company's consolidated statements of operations. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are calculated as the excess of the sale price of the set over its carrying value. The carrying value of the assets sold will generally include the price paid for the asset, net of the amount of cash or the fair value of non-cash credits and incentives received from equipment and component manufacturers and any liquidated damages received from the manufacturer, the costs associated with delivery of the asset including any taxes or tariffs, financing costs capitalized in connection with the construction of the asset, capitalized maintenance and other improvements, and accumulated depreciation. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions may also be adjusted if it is determined that the terms of the sale transaction or the lease agreement are at a price other than fair value.
From 2024 10K:
Gains on Sale-Leaseback Transactions
The Company enters into sale-leaseback transactions for its aircraft and spare engine assets, whereby the Company sells one or more aircraft or aircraft engine assets to a third-party and simultaneously enters into an operating lease for a right to use such assets for a fixed period of time. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are recognized in the period in which title to the asset transfers to the buyer-lessor and the lease commences, as a component of other operating expenses within the Company's consolidated statements of operations. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions are calculated as the excess of the sale price of the set over its carrying value. The carrying value of the assets sold will generally include the price paid for the asset, net of the amount of cash or the fair value of non-cash credits and incentives received from equipment and component manufacturers and any liquidated damages received from the manufacturer, the costs associated with delivery of the asset including any taxes or tariffs, financing costs capitalized in connection with the construction of the asset, capitalized maintenance and other improvements, and accumulated depreciation. Gains on sale-leaseback transactions may also be adjusted if it is determined that the terms of the sale transaction or the lease agreement are at a price other than fair value.
07-13-2025 | 06:49 AM
#23
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 139
No.
Biffle has publicly said that with new labor contracts in place in 2026 Frontier will still maintain a 40% cost advantage over the competition. Frontier will likely raise ticket prices by $5 to $10 dollars to pass the cost along to the customer. Exactly like what every other airline has already done. We are going to be fine. Just like last time.
Biffle has publicly said that with new labor contracts in place in 2026 Frontier will still maintain a 40% cost advantage over the competition. Frontier will likely raise ticket prices by $5 to $10 dollars to pass the cost along to the customer. Exactly like what every other airline has already done. We are going to be fine. Just like last time.
07-13-2025 | 06:51 AM
#24
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 139
Have you seen how many premiums there are each weekend? Have you seen the amount of premiums that go unfilled? Have you seen the cancellation rate? While not all are, many are flying the contract.
07-13-2025 | 06:57 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,760
Likes: 106
From: 1900D CA
He's not delusional. It's their lame attempt at negotiating. That's all. Last round the company proposed a 12th year captain rate of $200/ hour. We eventually settled on $270. Expect a similar result this time
07-13-2025 | 07:36 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 857
Likes: 22
07-13-2025 | 04:42 PM
#27
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 59
Likes: 6
When Indigo placed the massive 400 aircraft order back some years ago they negotiated a significant discount on the planes. When we take possession of a new aircraft we immediately sell it to a leasing company and then lease the aircraft from them for 8 to 12 years. When we sell it to the leasing company they pay market rate for the aircraft which is maybe 10 Million more than our negotiated discount price from Airbus. Frontier then pockets the $10 M and we begin making monthly lease payments on the aircraft
07-13-2025 | 06:58 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 857
Likes: 22
i’m still somewhat new around to these parts but I hear people here say often how they hope someone like delta or UA will just buy us. But when we don’t own any of our gates, or any of our ground and gate staff, or any of our planes…what exactly is there to buy? A pilot and FA group? A single hangar at DEN? A HQ building off of Peña with the “R” on the sign burnt out?
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