how is f9 doing financially?
10-15-2025 | 11:43 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2024
Posts: 415
Likes: 73
Sometimes wonder why they didnt look at snatching up air wisconsin 60 jets and doing service to outlying airports to the larger ones to fill routes that way. You figure the majors are running 12-16 flights a day to 1 hub, they should be able to fill at least 1 and connect people to other flights.... assuming things were timed properly. Probably the desire to not start managing and maintaining a 'new' aircraft type.
people ask is the ULCC model dead. I don’t think it’s dead in its entirety. What I think is dead as a doorknob is this idea of one aircraft size. 240 seat aircraft chasing more 240 seat aircraft. While all these CEOs screams “OVER SATURATION!”
dont get me wrong, I want nothing to do with AIrwisconsin (are they still around?). But, I agree we need something smaller for the sake of frequency.
is it a 50 seat RJ, A220, E-190 I have no idea. Problem is, it throws the 8˘ CASM right out the window. But, it starts to correct the frequency problem.
you think I might be crazy. But, go to the SW forum. They are saying similar things.
10-15-2025 | 11:50 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,612
Likes: 78
Good example but the pizza "market" is still the pizza market. Little Ceasar's offers a generic cheese or peperoni for 1/2 the cost of others and sell quite a bit of it.
EVERY market has bargain hunters - and there are usually more of those than any other kind. But they are particular (especially this new generation). Those who can provide the bargain but also cater to the nature of the customer in a way that brings them back is what is necessary.
Little Ceasar's doesn't pay their pizza makers 40% less. And, they've found a way to get people to still want to buy.
EVERY market has bargain hunters - and there are usually more of those than any other kind. But they are particular (especially this new generation). Those who can provide the bargain but also cater to the nature of the customer in a way that brings them back is what is necessary.
Little Ceasar's doesn't pay their pizza makers 40% less. And, they've found a way to get people to still want to buy.
10-15-2025 | 12:05 PM
#24
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 312
Good example but the pizza "market" is still the pizza market. Little Ceasar's offers a generic cheese or peperoni for 1/2 the cost of others and sell quite a bit of it.
EVERY market has bargain hunters - and there are usually more of those than any other kind. But they are particular (especially this new generation). Those who can provide the bargain but also cater to the nature of the customer in a way that brings them back is what is necessary.
Little Ceasar's doesn't pay their pizza makers 40% less. And, they've found a way to get people to still want to buy.
EVERY market has bargain hunters - and there are usually more of those than any other kind. But they are particular (especially this new generation). Those who can provide the bargain but also cater to the nature of the customer in a way that brings them back is what is necessary.
Little Ceasar's doesn't pay their pizza makers 40% less. And, they've found a way to get people to still want to buy.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
10-15-2025 | 12:27 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 202
Likes: 8
Little Ceasar's is the lowest quality pizza out there. Its the cheapest one because its the worst one. Sure they are profitable, but most people would rather pay a little more for Domino's or Pizza Hut (which are #1 and #2 chains in the US) or go to a local pizza place that makes higher quality pizzas.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
10-15-2025 | 12:31 PM
#26
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,943
Likes: 98
Little Ceasar's is the lowest quality pizza out there. Its the cheapest one because its the worst one. Sure they are profitable, but most people would rather pay a little more for Domino's or Pizza Hut (which are #1 and #2 chains in the US) or go to a local pizza place that makes higher quality pizzas.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
10-15-2025 | 12:33 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 93
From: Lineholder
Little Ceasar's is the lowest quality pizza out there. Its the cheapest one because its the worst one. Sure they are profitable, but most people would rather pay a little more for Domino's or Pizza Hut (which are #1 and #2 chains in the US) or go to a local pizza place that makes higher quality pizzas.
If Little Ceasar's tried to pivot into a higher quality product they would have a hard time because they have built their brand on the cheap price low quality pizza. It would be hard to overcome the consumer's hesitation to "give them a try" when they already know what they would get from Dominos or Pizza Hut.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
Airlines all pay around the same for planes, gates, fuel, landing fees. So the only real costs they can pass on are the labor costs. So without lower labor costs, you don't have a "low cost" model.
And all airlines do NOT pay around the same for planes or fuel. SWA hedged fuel for years at a discount. DL has their own refinery. F9 has a sale-leaseback program for their aircraft. Mgt's job is to gain advantages where/when they can. Planning on paying less for labor is NEVER a viable long term strategy. SWA did it in the 70s but grew to the point where SWA pilots and FAs are the highest paid domestic.
It all boils down to management and how innovative (or not) they are.
10-15-2025 | 12:39 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,919
Likes: 93
From: Lineholder
you didn’t ask for my opinion. So I’ll give it to you anyway.
people ask is the ULCC model dead. I don’t think it’s dead in its entirety. What I think is dead as a doorknob is this idea of one aircraft size. 240 seat aircraft chasing more 240 seat aircraft. While all these CEOs screams “OVER SATURATION!”
dont get me wrong, I want nothing to do with AIrwisconsin (are they still around?). But, I agree we need something smaller for the sake of frequency.
is it a 50 seat RJ, A220, E-190 I have no idea. Problem is, it throws the 8˘ CASM right out the window. But, it starts to correct the frequency problem.
you think I might be crazy. But, go to the SW forum. They are saying similar things.
people ask is the ULCC model dead. I don’t think it’s dead in its entirety. What I think is dead as a doorknob is this idea of one aircraft size. 240 seat aircraft chasing more 240 seat aircraft. While all these CEOs screams “OVER SATURATION!”
dont get me wrong, I want nothing to do with AIrwisconsin (are they still around?). But, I agree we need something smaller for the sake of frequency.
is it a 50 seat RJ, A220, E-190 I have no idea. Problem is, it throws the 8˘ CASM right out the window. But, it starts to correct the frequency problem.
you think I might be crazy. But, go to the SW forum. They are saying similar things.
It would be smarter, if we were to offer some sort of regional like service, to outfit a certain few 320s w/ less than 150 seats (to save on cost of FAs) and use those planes specifically on routes compatible with essential air service. Otherwise, it really doesn't make sense to use a 180 seat plane to fly once a week to OMA or BIS or GRR when that plane could offer redundancy of LAX-SFO.
10-15-2025 | 01:10 PM
#30
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 48
Likes: 8
From: A320 - Button Masher
I was thinking look at places where majors are running multiple flights a day, have once daily service to pull volume into the 1 or 2 main bases on the days the bases have their flights out. Take advantage of the essential air service subsidies, fill them up and max the bases out. Use the 320/21's to run the high demand routes. You'd be able to offer a heck of a lot more route options with 1 layover and truly compete with the majors.
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