Can someone please post the details of this agreement? Or hit me with a link?

I'm sure AA had no input on the interview process at it's wholly owned carriers :rolleyes: right....

And the fact that they are already flying American passengers around to the same airports, in the same weather. Some of you guys really need to get over yourselves. :rolleyes:

The following statement is hearsay, guesswork, conjecture, etc: Delta went to GoJet and said if they cant prove staffing wont be an issue, then they will start with the 900s being transferred to another DCI carrier followed by the 700 Comairs. Delta wont do flow nothing; so that Randy the racist (alleged) dude was able to salvage a deal with Spirit which is funny because they're very much not his color of people. So credit where it's due. If new talent don't bite the bait, you may lose those 900s soon.

Again, hearsay, conjecture, guesswork. Cough cough

From what I read it's "under 10 per month", so 0-10 per month. Also, it's not really a flow, still have to go through some sort of assessment. After two years in the CRJ you can move on.? Something like that...

Delta owns Endeavor. Endeavor must run everything by Delta. TSH is its own company bound by a contract and what is in that signed contract. Nothing more.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/gojet-airlines-announces-pilot-pathway-program-with-spirit-airlines-300496893.html?tc=eml_cleartime

That's about the extent of it. I don't know if there is some exact written contract betweeen the two airlines. 10/mo was just the number mentioned on our teleconference. Spirit and GoJet found a mutual benefit in agreeing to allow GoJet pilots to move directly into Spirit after two years if FO or one year after captain OE. Don't get caught up in the minutia. Management here really wants pilots to move on quickly and this is an example of them going the extra mile to forge relationships to benefit the pilots.

I've got some clean glasses over here if anyone else wants to try this KoolAid. :-)

I wonder if they had to run this past DL and UA. I can't see them happy that there staffing is going to Spirit...

the 900s that G7 owns are getting transferred to another carrier?

Are you serious? That's you're advice, don't worry about those little things called details? Small areas of gray in a contract that couldn't possibly be interpreted in a negative manner, it's the sunny belief underneath that really matters? That's a terrible thought process. You better put your koolaid down and drink some water.

Around 55% of the legacy's flag is contracted out to "regionals". As that most excellent recent article by Patrick Smith noted, that means fewer % of pilots end up at the mainlines as in the good ol days. On the other hand, low cost carriers seem set for a lot of growth. Even mainline carriers seem to repeatedly attempt to start their own lost cost structures. Delta, for example, seems less interested in wide body overseas flying and more interested in narrow body domestic flying. Most new Delta pilots will fly the C-series based out of NYC doing shuttle type flying. (Btw, the C-series is supposed to replace Crj-700/900 routes, The 700/900s are supposed to replace 200 routes, and the 50-seaters will disappear. So that will free up a lot of Crj-200 pilots, so I don't think mainline will be too concerned about their regional feed for a couple years. But, if I was a pilot at a 50-seater airline I'd be concerned.) So, realistically, I'd think that far more pilots that want to move on from a regional will end up at a LLC than mainline. Maybe Spirit isn't everyone's first choice, but it is a realistic choice. And, most importantly, it is a CHOICE. Nobody is forcing anyone to go there. It's an option. I don't understand why anybody would ***** about having more options? Plus, my understanding is that other pathways are in the works. Maybe GoJet pilots will end up with 3 or 4 pathways to choose from? It's said that one of the downfalls of this industry is no clear pathways to move up. It's a huge financial risk to get into professional flying because it's such a crap shoot where you'll end up. Many pilots end up at one defunct regional after another. So I applaud GoJet with at least doing something in this regard. They do take an unusual interest in emphasizing that they want to help pilots to move on to bigger and better things. I've worked at several airlines and I've never seen that interest before. First I thought it was BS, but they do seem serious about that from all accounts. The devil is in the details, though. I'm curious how it all pans out. But even if it falls flat on it's face, at least it's an attempt. More than a lot of places do.

Who says you have to stay at Spirit or any other ULCC ? Get a type and make the resume look better for the Legacies.

PIC time does much more for a resume than any type rating ever will.

Knowing the right people will do more than both. Everyone has a different situation. This is still good news for GoJet pilots. It is an option they didn't have before. Nobody will force them to go to Spirit. That being said, if you are at Gojet and have just logged your 1000th hour of PIC, then you are wasting time if you stay (unless you can get check airman or something like that). Once you have 1000 TPIC, you are doing yourself a disservice if you don't move to a better career opportunity. Spirit may not be your final goal, but (dare I say it?) it is better than your regional.

Dude have you heard of spacing pargraphs?

Don't discount the probable inability for many folks to afford 1st yr pay at Spirit. It's not a light financial matter. It's very real and will have an impact for a few years afterwards. Everyone in my class at Spirit made between $28,000 to $32,000. I personally made $29,900 and am still trying to recover 4 years later.

"Didn't you know what 1st year pay was and what you were getting into?"

Yes and No

I was sold on an abundance of Preium Pay. That is not the case.

I was sold on immediately holding a line. 5 months of Reserve for me (results may very depending on Base).

$1,500/ month during Training is brutal.

I went in budgeting for $40-45,000 1st year and fell well short of that expectation.

The point is not to get comfortable at any airline until you are at your final career destination. But I have a feeling you knew what I was saying anyways. :rolleyes:

this !!!! ^^^^^^^ :d

Except that you will literally be losing tens of thousands of dollars.... First year pay here is a joke. Second you can live on, and third you start to scratch your head why you're making $80/hour less flying 228 passengers (more than many wide-bodies) than the other folks.... On fourth year pay you'll likely start to make more than you did in the left seat, BUT, you will never get back to even taking into account the joke of first year pay. Be forewarned.

If you want to lose tens of thousands of dollars for an Airbus type (and hopefully not botching training and adding a pink slip), best of luck to you.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This. Hey Fodder. Just stay at the Hulas compound w/ the other lifers who don't have any ambition. You'll fit in nicely. Before you ask, yes I worked for that crap hole regional. You can have it. Why better yourself when the bottom is good enough, right?

It is worth noting that this is the first non-WO flow I've heard of.

Great Lakes has a flow to Frontier.

hahaha,
I stand corrected.

Cape Air has flow to Jet Blue.

Commutair sort of has a flow to UAL.

CPP is not a flow

Our MEC chair sent your union a letter, you should read it and take it seriously.

Wow. Fyp at spirit sucks. That's not entitlement that's making a good financial decision

If you have a family and training/student debt you might litterally starve or rack up tons more debt by coming to spirit. The mountains of premium pay and being released from trips with pay to cover other trips are the very small exception not the rule. It probably happens no more than most any other carrier these days.

When spirit had 20-30 planes it was operation normal and the only way to keep the planes flying so the pilots here (spirit) at that time kind of became dependent on it and used it as justification for the low pay. It somehow became urban legend. A small faction of senior spirit pilots that have not kept up with industry trends actually still think they are making a competitive wage because they agree to be Scheduling's gopher during their free time so the urban legend continues of unlimited premium pay while still getting 15+ days off. Never mind the fact that some of them will end up living off their kids in retirement because they have no idea what industry standard retirement really means when it comes to the millions of dollars difference between us and everyone else.

The pay rates multiplied by 72-80hrs a month is what to expect but only after OE. Until then it's $1500/mo with no insurance or flying benefits for 90 days. A month based in ACY could litterally cost you more than you make if you don't live there.

You may also hear stories about the incredible QOL and to be honest that is the one thing we have that is mostly industry standard with a couple items that are slightly above standard and many that are below. Again, more urban legend than reality and while not terrible like the compensation it's generally nothing that can't be achieved at a legacy or Southwest. The best thing as an airline pilot you can do for your QOL is live in base and it will override any good or bad work rules you may have. The thing is every one of our bases shares a domicile with at least one of the big 4. We might be a good option for folks in ACY or FLL that aren't already at an American owned regional because AA is taking very few civilian off the street pilots currently.

If you're young and single and can afford the pay I'd say maybe take a look at us but don't justify the pay. I did that when I started at a regional thinking I wouldn't stay long and at that time I was able to live on almost nothing. My older, established, family man self regretted that a decade later when I realized how much supporting a family actually costs. It's also very hard to have a working spouse and a couple of kids with our schedules. It can be done but adds a lot of strain to the marriage and family imo. You invested a lot of time, money, and effort to gain the skills you have today and there are airlines that are recognizing that with their compensation packages. Spirit is not at this time. If you come over we will welcome you with respect but just don't say your weren't warned.

Id also like to see the details of this agreement because we've been given none thus far.

What happens if you interview at gojet and they want you but spirit does not? Do you get hired anyway but no flow?

The interview for GoJet counts as the interview for Spirit for all new hires. So if you get a job offer from GoJet, you have a flow number to Spirit.

Thanks for the response, I probably should have been more specific. My understanding is that the interview process and standards will have to be made more stringent to meet spirit standards and may also involve a representative from them at the interview. Now we all know that gojet typically draws some of the lowest qualified applicants in the regional industry. So what I am asking is will gojet start rejecting those who do not meet the higher standards which will be most of their applicants. They cannot afford to do such a thing and stay in business. I believe this flow will have tons of red tape to prevent spirit from actually having to take many of these people. Thoughts.

I don't know where the "we all know g7 attracts the lowest qualified applicants" comment came from. Any guy with the minimum time can pretty much get a class date at and regional. And the training here isn't easy and not everybody makes it through.. I'd love to know who you work for.

So here we are. A month past the announcement and still no details on when or how this flow will be implemented. The recording I listened to said the flow would begin "immediately" so clearly GoJet and Spirit have a different definition of what that means.

I see for GoJet it means they immediately splash a big shiny yellow plane on their recruitment ads and claim they offer a pathway to a career airline, although they clearly have no idea how, or possibly no intention to,implement such a pathway.

Personally I dont feel many GoJet pilots are interested in a flow to Spirit (Maybe for a free type, but not as a positive career move) however I do feel the company should at least try to make it appear that they really intend to honor their promise, rather than just using it to lure young pilots into their windowless van.

What I heard from the former Director of Ops Steve Briner was something like, "We're no Skywest, most of the guys we hire, the other regionals wouldn't touch with a 10 foot poll, but we give them another chance and hire them. Of course not all of them can make it through training." He also said at the time that United wanted to do some kind of flow so and they wanted to know how many guys Gojet had under age 42. He sounded like Gojet didn't want United's flow. In his view hiring the bottom of the barrel was something to be proud of, everyone got a chance.

Just curious as to where you found this quoted? Sounds like BS

Did you get the memo for you you need to do to opt in ? They sent it a couple weeks back.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but here's how I understand it-

If you've been here at least 2 years total and at least a year past upgrade to captain (if you upgraded), then you are eligible to apply for the "flow". You can't have any failures in the past 2 years and only 2 failures in a life time. After a list is compiled of the pilots who are eligible and want to go to Spirit then they will select about 0-10 G7 pilots per month to go to Spirit. It sounds like it will be a few months before the program actually goes into effect. Niether GoJet Teamsters or Spirit ALPA have anything to do with it.

So, a lot of ifs and buts. Maybe it will be good. But knowing how disfunctional GoJets administration is I wouldn't hold my breath and be pleasantly surprised if it amounts to much. Another thing to consider is GoJet's failure rate in training. When I was going through about 60% of captains were failing and about 20% of the FOs. So it's a good chance you could pick up a failure or two at GoJet, thus making you ineligible (or maybe just wash out completely). Especially going in as a DEC I'd be very weary. There is a cabal of checkairmen who are totally against that program and are happy to cull the herd, so to speak. They're a minority, and I've heard one or two have left or are leaving, but it's something to weigh in the decision to come to GoJet. In short, I wouldn't base a decision about coming to G7 on a flow to Spirit. The risks out weigh the rewards. Get in...get out. Apply to Spirit directly and it would probably be quicker and easier.

This all will mesh super well with Spirits training. Spirit has the toughest training footprint of any major airline. 6 weeks start to finish, 4 sims and a checkride. I imagine the successful training rate at Spirit will rapidly decline as they flow guys who have already failed out of at least one other regional airline before landing in GoJet.

Betting on a "FLOW" in this career is like betting on weather to wear protection with that girl on ones MED overnight.
Also knowing people at both places ...WHY oh WHY would anyone pick a regional because of a "MAYBE, POSSIBLY ,ONE DAY" to Spirit. I have friends who are 6 th year captains clawing their way outta that place. I'm sure at many LCC you will find some who are not happy...I'm not...But I really no chit almost shot my iceT through my nose when I opened APC today seeing that add. To me it reads "Hay you don't like that job...come hate this one too". Plus with the group going through contract negotiations didn't the MEC of Spirit post a memo saying how bad it was.
I know of a guy in my crashpad who stayed at eagle for ten years as a FO waiting for that AA flow. Eagle sent all kinds of propaganda out going back to 2006 whenever hiring became a problem.
I know making 150k a year sounds like a lot of money. One nice car, a toy or two and boom you still have the same amount of money left over at the end of the month. And 15K signing bonus🙂 After taxes, divided by twelve..?
Pick a place for quality of life, work rules, RSV rules, equipment and time to upgrade. Figure out what works best for you.
I've said it before, EMB, CRJ, Boeing, Airbus all pretty much the same after a couple months in the chair.
At this point if B6 put a Airbus sticker on the lawnmower in MCO I would drive that everyday...with pay of course.
Rant over...

This industry is one huge scam operation. AMR, I guess now AAG has been dangling the flow carrot since the 90s. I can't remember which thread it was but someone posted something very accurate. He or she said the regionals are a massive c-scale operation with no light at the end of the tunnel for most people. If the career level airlines major or LCC really wanted you they would just go ahead and hire you there.