For those considering Go-Jets, from a troll.
 

Trans States Pilots vs GoJet
A White Paper Analysis

Purpose:
The purpose of this document is to inform airline professionals on how GoJet Airlines, LLC adversely affects Trans States Pilots. While this white paper is factual, it is not meant to be unbiased or devoid of opinion. To the contrary, this document’s is designed to educate anyone considering a job or career with GoJet so that he or she may make an informed decision by answering this question: Will accepting a position at GoJet be detrimental to Trans States pilots and the airline industry as a whole?

Background:
In late 2003, Trans States Airlines management indicated their desire to acquire and operate large regional jet aircraft. In early 2004, the Trans States MEC and TSA management began negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft (i.e. those in excess of 64 seats). Despite months of negotiations, the TSA MEC was unable to reach an agreement on the substandard pay scales Trans States management demanded. As a result, in early fall of 2004 negotiations had diffused.

In October 2004, Trans States Airlines’ President announced a need to create another airline to operate large regional jet aircraft, citing the Allied Pilots Association (APA – American Airlines) scope language restricting Trans States Airlines from operating aircraft larger than 50 seats. This airline, GoJet, would be controlled by the newly created Trans States Holdings1. While the APA scope restrictions did exist, that limitation did not prevent two airlines with independent operating certificates from operating with one seniority list or under a single collective bargaining agreement.
Meanwhile, four TSA management pilots who were hired as GoJet pilots, signed authorization cards stating they wished to be represented by the Teamsters, and GoJet management secretly signed on to the bogus scheme. ALPA challenged this attempt with the National Mediation Board, claiming that the Teamsters could not be the bargaining representative of GoJet since GoJet had not yet obtained an operating certificate. ALPA’s challenge was upheld by the NMB. The Trans States MEC immediately requested a meeting with the President of Trans States Airlines, who, by no coincidence, would also be the President of GoJet Airlines. Only after informational picketing, a pilot rally at St. Louis and a letter written by then ALPA President Duane Woerth to TSA CEO Hulas Kanodia, was the President of TSA finally convinced to
meet and negotiate with the TSA MEC.Negotiations began in the summer of 2005. Throughout the negotiations, TSA took a take-it-or-leave-it approach. Eventually in late summer 20052 TSA management put their last, best proposal on the table. Their LOA proposal contained Single Carrier language, a Holding Company Letter (binding TSH to TSA CBA), merged seniority list, substandard 70/90 seat pay scales, and a contract extension of 4 years3. Unfortunately, the GoJet LOA, in the opinion of many TSA pilots, lacked true job security protection. Management’s LOA prevented the bumping of those pilots already at GoJet from their equipment in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. This was particularly sensitive to the J41 fleet, which had already been scheduled to be removed from service by mid 2006. ALPA had tried to remedy this inequity through an additional proposal that protected the Trans States pilots, but TSA management was not interested. The TSA MEC conducted a series of road shows that outlined what management’s LOA did and didn’t provide in terms of wages, duration and scope. The pilots of Trans States Airlines voted down the proposal 3 to 1 in what was clearly a very emotional vote.[/FONT]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']The Trans States MEC re-polled the pilots to determine why the vote failed and also attempted to resume negotiations, but Trans States management refused despite our best efforts to re-engage. ALPA also filed a petition with the NMB to recognize Trans States and GoJet as a single carrier. The NMB received briefs from the Company and ALPA. Primarily because the Company had separated the labor relations functions of TSA and GoJet, the NMB denied ALPA’s single carrier petition and Teamsters (IBT local 618) remained as the representational party. Trans States’ MEC also filed a Section 1 scope violation grievance, which remains pending today. The TSA CBA states that the Company shall not create or acquire an alter-ego to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement5. Although ALPA lost the Single Carrier petition, a different standard will be used by an arbitrator on whether TSA violated that portion of the CBA

Ex-TSA Pilots
During the course of the GoJet negotiations in 2004 and 2005, two TSA pilots who had become Flight Managers4 assisted in the creation and operation of GoJet. These flight managers would later actively try to prevent ALPA from becoming the labor representation unit at GoJet by signing authorization cards with two others in an attempt to place IBT 618 on property and block any attempt by pilots to choose ALPA. In early 2005, these same pilots were directly involved with other senior TSA management personnel in union busting tactics that resulted in the wrongful termination of five union officers in a direct attempt to undermine the TSA MEC and ALPA.
In late 2005, after the LOA vote failed, TSA management began offering GoJet jobs to TSA pilots by enticing them with up to five years’ longevity. At the time, TSA pilots were actively demonstrating that GoJet flying belonged to and should be flown by TSA pilots on the TSA Seniority List. Only a few pilots from TSA rank and file went to GoJet, but their decision to do so at the expense of our campaign to unify these companies left deep scars and set off the beginning of a pilot war. Most of the ex-TSA pilots who went to GoJet were made check airmen and held IBT shop steward positions. Even members of IBT’s Airline Division Local 747 condemned the actions of IBT 618 to unionize this group while ALPA was trying to resolve the issues. TSA pilots wore “Alter EGoJet” badge backers in a visual display of their discontent, while ALPA filed a grievance5 over the alter-ego carrier (a label which remains with GoJet today).

GoJet Growth
As time went on, a misconception arose throughout the airline industry that the TSA vs GoJet issue had been resolved. To the contrary, it had not. Deep divisions grew between pilots employed at the alter-ego carrier GoJet and those who remained loyal to Trans States Airlines. TSA pilots discouraged pilots from seeking employment with GoJet because of the consequences that growth could have on Trans States pilots’ own future job security. At the time, several airlines had disappeared – from Chicago Express to Atlantic Coast (Independence Air) – and some of these unemployed pilots, not understanding the ramifications of their actions, accepted employment at GoJet. Ten CRJ700s were planned for GoJet delivery with options for 20 more. The furloughing and closures at other carriers resulted in a pool of available pilots, including pilots from flight schools who knew nothing about the situation, and GoJet eventually grew to 15 aircraft solely operating as United Express with approximately 150 pilots11Trans States Negotiations
Needless to say, TSA pilots and negotiators have placed job security as a primary objective in their Section 6 negotiations, which opened in February 2006. During the course of negotiations, TSA management announced the loss of 10 jets – returned to American Eagle which held the leases on these aircraft. Most recently, Trans States management admitted to the loss of the entire American Connection Codeshare effective May 2009. Seventeen (17) aircraft will disappear from our property, taking our 50 jet aircraft operation down to 33. As a result, approximately 150 TSA pilots have been furloughed. At the same time, our alter-ego sister carrier continues to hire more pilots. The only good news coming from the loss of the American Connection (AX) flying is the elimination of the APA scope limitations – as of May 2009, Trans State Airlines is no longer limited to 50-seat or fewer aircraft operations. Clearly, the continued growth at GoJet is a serious threat to the job security of Trans States pilots. Presently, GoJet is taking delivery of six additional aircraft and have options for 10 more. This would increase the size of the GoJet fleet to 31 (assuming all options exercised) while the TSA fleet is scheduled to be reduced to, at best, 33 and quite possibly as low as 27 due to additional aircraft being returned to the lessor. Right now, Trans States Airlines remains the dominant revenue stream to Trans States Holdings and very likely supports the GoJet operations. Consider this: most of TSA’s flying is fee for departure, as is GoJet’s; however, GoJet’s approximate 30,0006 yearly departures for 2008 were far less than TSA’s 100,0006 departures. Additionally, operating revenues for GoJet in 2007 were $127 million7 compared to TSA at $350 million7. As growth and revenue increase at GoJet and revenue and fleet size shrink at TSA, you could expect an eventual role reversal.

GoJet’s steady growth continues to diminish any chance for TSA pilots to propel our job security issues to the surface. Time is of the essence for Trans States pilots. Clearly, a role reversal in pilot group size, fleet size, and revenue production marginalize the effectiveness of any self help measure at Trans States Airlines at the end of the cooling-off period in the current section 6 bargaining. Our only bargaining leverage is the threat of lawful self help, which could adversely impact the bulk of Trans States’ revenue stream, thereby affecting their capability to purchase additional jets for GoJet (at least at the rate they want them) as well as disrupt their entire operation.

It is no secret that Trans States Holdings would like to diversify its portfolio of codeshare partners. Right now GoJet has a codeshare agreement strictly with United, and Trans States Airlines (as of May 2009) will codeshare primarily for United with only a few aircraft in the US Airways system. To be tied to a single codeshare partner that can flex their leverage to eat into their profits remains a concern for both GoJet and TSA management. Additionally, GoJet’s future growth is contingent on UAL’s Jets-four-Jobs (J4J) program, which guarantees seats to furloughed UAL pilots. While this arrangement provides a positive outcome for UAL pilots, it continues to erode the opportunity for TSA pilots to correct the past. The same would hold true for other pilots that fill those seats and promote GoJet’s growth

TSA Pilots’ Plight
TSA pilots remain focused on trying to resolve the GoJet issue in a manner that concedes GoJet’s existence, but rights the injustice of the past while providing future stability and job security for Trans States pilots’ and families. GoJet was born off the labor and sacrifice8 of Trans States pilots. The very existence of GoJet Airlines serves as a constant reminder of the disloyalty Trans States Airlines and Trans States Holdings have for its labor force. The TSA pilot group has endured a tiring and relentless barrage of attacks through the years, yet this pilot group remained loyal to the industry by not accepting substandard wages on larger regional jet aircraft nor did they accept disloyalty as defeat. Trans States pilots continue to build on their own unity and resolve that an improved contract without adequate job protections will ultimately place TSA pilots in the unemployment line or be severely whipsawed by TSA management. It is likely that our last and best chance to obtain acceptable job security is in our current Section 6 negotiations. The likelihood of having enough leverage in the future – once GoJet reaches a self-sustainable size – to address these important issues is highly unlikely. The window of opportunity is quickly closing. TSA pilots are battered and weathered, but remain focused on this one very important issue. TSA pilots continue to prepare for what will likely be a game of brinksmanship, but our future livelihood is no game.

Trans States Holdings, Trans States Airlines and GoJet Connections

Even though ALPA lost the single carrier petition, many of the same members of management clearly participate in both companies’ affairs. The one they neatly refrain from being overt about is labor relations. Many employees labeled Holding company employees wear two hats at all times: One for GoJet and one for TSA, when it’s convenient. Most of GoJet services are contracted out to Trans States Airlines. Many members of the training department at Trans States have been required to teach GoJet indoctrination class. According to TSA management, these employees are being subcontracted at fair market values. In addition, GoJet utilizes Trans States Airlines maintenance to support their maintenance operations. Again, TSA maintenance is merely being contracted out. GoJet is presently seeking to have Trans States Airlines be the sole contract maintenance provider to GoJet. TSH continues to perpetuate the illusion of separate companies, but too many faces work at both. They may legally be deemed separate entities, but most TSA pilots know the real story

Life at GoJet
In late 2007, some pilots at GoJet with whom the TSA MEC had contact expressed their discontent with IBT 618. They claimed that the Teamsters did nothing for them and only seemed to collect dues with little to no representation. Those individuals sought help and advice from the TSA MEC and expressed their desire to change representation either to IBT 747 or ALPA. They assured the TSA MEC that the honeymoon was over and that the ex-TSA guys were no longer in power as IBT representatives. When the TSA MEC came out publicly to support some of these pilots in an effort to show our willingness to work with them instead of against them, GoJet management went on a headhunting campaign, a tactic previously and unsuccessfully deployed on the TSA property as well. Those GoJet pilots who sought to correct an injustice while still protecting their memberships rights were harassed by the ex-TSA pilots working at GoJet. The ex-TSA pilots claimed these pilots sold them out and were conspiring to hurt all GoJet pilots. The GoJet membership, suppressed by management for years, did nothing as these outspoken GoJet pilots were maligned. One resigned (coerced) and the other was terminated. This led some ex-TSA pilots being elected back into power as shop stewards cutting off all communications as well as any chance to see a change in representation at that property

IBT 618 was never meant to represent airline pilots. Pilot representation has been mainly reserved for IBT 747, which is a major part of the IBT airline division. Local 618 lacks any airline experience and has only represented the TSA flight attendants during previous years. Based on the former GoJet representative accounts and other GoJet pilots, previously and currently employed, GoJet pilots lack the backbone of a good bargaining agent. IBT 618 also appears to be too closely connected with TSA management, which is why TSA management sought them out during GoJet’s inception in order to prevent ALPA or a stronger union from coming on to the property. Its seems fairly clear that one should not expect very meaningful, if any, representation from IBT 618 at GoJet especially since the ex-TSA pilots are now running the local show. IBT 618 has shown much more loyalty to management over the years, not to pilots.
Several pilots have characterized life at GoJet as harsh and intimidating. Check airmen given a lot of power use that power to control the pilot group through fear and intimidation. Many pilots end up with FAA Letters of Investigations (LOIs) because pilots are expected to do whatever it takes to get a flight out on time. Pilots are terminated because they stand up to management or get noticed too much. Certainly, the TSA MEC cannot purport that all pilots at GoJet feel this way, but several have shared similar accounts. Most GoJet pilots seem to keep their heads down, look the other way and hope they get to move on with a clean record to another airline when hiring improves. These heavy-handed management tactics only serve to suppress the pilot group and influence them to conform or else. Stick your head up out of the weeds too far and you might get shot!

Conclusions
The outcome for TSA pilots is bleak unless adequate job security protections can be negotiated. TSA pilots are presently operating 50-seat aircraft without any prospect for future growth in larger regional jet aircraft. Forecasts show that regional 50-seat aircraft will continue to lose market share to larger jet aircraft in future years. These forecasts can accelerate especially if fuel prices hit the highs they did in the summer of 2008, which culminated with a dramatic capacity reductions in 50-seat and less aircraft. With operating revenues favoring Trans States Airlines 3 to 1, looming self help at the end of a cooling-off period is our biggest leverage to force this issue to the table. That, combined with UAL’s position as GoJet’s and TSA’s largest codeshare partner and no opportunity to diversify may also equate to some leverage to address our job security concerns.
Clearly, time is not on the side of TSA pilots, and GoJet’s continued growth and the indifference and support by pilots throughout this industry only serve to accelerate the demise of Trans States Airlines and the TSA pilots. This situations can resolve itself in several ways: 1) TSA pilots resort to legal self help and management refuses to deal with the job security issues resulting in other pilots taking those positions or the liquidation of TSA assets; 2) TSA pilots fail to achieve job security protections for the future and TSA management uses their new found leverage with a substantially larger GoJet to either whipsaw TSA pilots into submission or dismantle the company at its own pace in line with GoJet growth so as to achieve no net loss in operating revenues over time; 3) GoJet could continue to grow while TSA pilots continue to decline resulting in a role reversal of pilot group sizes, at which time Trans States Holdings could voluntarily go to the NMB and request a Single Transportation Sytem10 designation, which could result in TSA pilots being represented by IBT 618.
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']Or, 4) the outcome most favored by TSA pilots, with industry cooperation Trans States Airlines pilots can secure the job security protections we deserve while addressing the GoJet issue fairly and equitably for all. This is in the best interest of TSA pilots and the airline industry at large, but it takes the support of all not just the few. The cooperation of pilots in taking the time to read and understand the issues will hopefully guide pilots to make supportive decisions in the future.

Really?
Still singing this song 15+ yrs later.
It’s over...get over it. Those original guys are no longer there...Today...GoJet guys are everywhere from UPS, Delta, FedEx, AA, lots at United etc...

Troll on:)

Old News
 

Dude... this is old old news...

Honestly TSA can look at themselves, nobody else for the blame... There are very few people left at GoJet today who worked at TSA in 2005...

Next thread...

move along peeps!

Too long to read, unless someone is stranded on a desert island for 3 years.

Second, nobody cares.

Third, even if 13 years ago Gojet had been the best place in the world to be, it is now the worst airline in the world to be a pilot.

Everything that Gojet says they are giving you is followed by a way they have up their sleeve, not to give it to you.

Gojet could probably do well if they were fair to employees, but they aren't, and I don't think they ever will. Its sad.

Really big surprise, from the management of a company which was established for the sole purpose of undercutting another pilot group.

You can't lipstick the pig of the union busting alter-ego airline which GOJETS is and you really can't beech about it. That's like the Skywest pilots complaining about their student council not getting them better payrates?

https://seekingalpha.com/pr/17216157-united-airlines-announces-fleet-update

Bye bye G7

Your argument reminds me of a junior prosecutor during the prosecution of 3 KKK members for murdering some black men. He went to great efforts to point out that the men had also been caught with marijuana.

People who go to Gojet don't care, they can't care, they have nowhere else to go. Flunk 5 or 6 check rides in your first 3 years of being a pilot and see if anyone calls besides Gojet.

You’re the biggest moron on this site. And that’s saying something.

I’d think Mesa or Skywest would get them as they already have 175s in their fleet and could be a one for one swap for Mesa CRJ 700 pretty much

Mesa would be calling first!

I think Mesa has 20 CRJs under IAX, GoJet has 25 under UAX. 25 CRJs will be cut. The airline getting the 175s won’t necessarily be the airline losing the -700s.

Exactly!

Delta recently ordered 20 new -900s that will be configured with 70 seats. Those will go to Skywest. GoJet operates 20 -700s for Delta.

Now United orders 25 new 175s that will (supposedly) be configured with 70 seats. GoJet operates 25-700s for United.

It seems logical that these new aircraft will be used to replace GoJet aircraft. However the deliveries don’t start until 2019 so even if these are replacement aircraft it will still take 1-2 years before GoJet is completely out of business.

What that means for a potential new hire, is that if you come to GoJet now you will be able to get 1000 121 time, but will most likely be out of a job before you get the chance to be failed at your upgrade.

Delta Connection VP announced to Endeavor that the Skywest order is not fleet growth there but renewal. They have old 700s that need replacement as well... the replacement for the 22 700s at GoJet hasn’t been announced yet but this VP says Delta Connection is going down to 3 carriers...

The Brickyard guys might have more recent information, but didn't the Rev state he was getting 15 more frames starting in the second half of 2018?

Not necessarily out of a job, but looking for a job at a different carrier.

Why waste 2 years of seniority at GoJet then?

Because of flow to Atlas...???...

Management is very tight lipped when it comes to aircraft. There wasn't even a rumor for an aircraft order coming prior to our 100 order two days ago.

But I do believe you are correct that sometime in last 6 months he said something along those lines. 3 presumably were already our own aircraft and will be for Delta. Our 3 Company painted E170's are being reconfigured and will fly exclusively for Delta now rather than being spares. The other 12 aircraft I believe will be the 12 E175's we gave up to United during BK that management didn't think they would be able to staff and that UA placed at Mesa. It is my understanding that Mesa has most of them if not all of them parked due to not being able to staff them.

Airlines often place these orders but sell the slots and options without ever taking delivery of them.

I am guessing that the order will be used as a recruiting tool for pilots. However, if Republic is willing to pay more than other airlines, then they will be the airline to grow for the next 10 years.

Skywest pilots took their 1% pay increase in exchange for 100 planes that will never come. Having locked in their profits, Skywest has dropped out of the race to recruit pilots.

Endeavor and Republic appear to be the places to go for growth. Nobody else is willing to pay for the pilots to fly the planes.

SkyWest has taken almost 100 aircraft... half new half used...by the end of 2018 we will have grown by 100 aircraft..

Love your understanding about Mesa. We are up a net 129 pilots on the Ejet side since the first of the year (according to our public filing with the SEC). All 60 of our aircraft are on the flow board and flying.

Skywest had 422 planes at the end of 2017. They are adding a total of 39 era-175s in 2018. They are adding 20 cry-900s but losing 20 crj 200s. I don't see any info showing they will get up to 522 planes. The pilots took the inflation adjusted 5 year pay cut because of the hint of a promise of 100 new planes, not new and used. Moving 20 planes from Expressjet to Skywest and getting rid of 20 200s is not growth. I don't see 522 in their future, do you?

You are correct in numbers but there was no time line on when 100 new aircraft would come.. and not getting the rest of the 200’s is a product of MX and time that was unexpected with these old ASA aircraft.. not worth the time/money for the 3 years UA wanted them. So a win for XJT.. SkyWest still has Ejet orders 50 firm 200 options... time will tell. But so much will and has changed in even the last month. Revisit the regionals in a year and it will look completely different again... (including this regionals sub forum)

G7 is a misguided (criminal) organization
 

That is not an exaggeration. The management of TSA and by extension GJ operated without any concern for TSA employees. What people do not understand is the reason they behaved this way. Let's take a little trip back to the beginning of TSA. At the very beginning of TSA, they were not a union represented airline. Shortly after they started operating Hulas was involved in the day-to-day operation of the airline. His privileged upbringing in India shaped his beliefs that his company could be run just like the CAS system in India. For those not familiar with that system it is essentially a ruling rich class and then an oppressed working class. When he came to this country, he brought those beliefs and thoughts with him. I am not here to tell you that Hulas is an evil man, on the contrary I flew with very senior TSA pilots who were invited to his house for dinner and treated quite well. He tried to treat his pilots as though they were his family (slaves). He had monthly gatherings for his family in which he tried to form a bond with his pilots. Unfortunately, his beliefs and the vast majority of his pilots diverged as he began to not respond to their concerns about their treatment. This all culminated in a meeting where a pilot was very outspoken during a meeting. Hulas basically told him that he would run his airline how he wanted to, and he could leave if he did not like it. Well, you can guess what transpired over the next several months. ALPA was voted in, and the relationship was permanently severed. From that day forward Hulas disowned his children and did not have any meaningful communications directly with his pilots ever again. This went on until the closing of TSA. What essentially happened to Hulas is he was deeply hurt and upset that his children turned on him. He never has been able to get over that emotion. This is where GJ comes into the picture. The (illegal) creation of GJ was just a way for Hulas to dispense with TSA as his main income over time. The sequence of events which transpired are eloquently described in the white paper above. GJ was formed by TSA management and a few TSA pilots who controlled the union at GJ. What Hulas did was perform an end run around the TSA CBA and form an airline that he could control and run as he had wanted to do with TSA. So GJ has now had a long reputation of bad management and disregard of their employees. The exact thing that prompted TSA pilots to vote in ALPA against Hulas. So today Hulas is wealthy, and he and his family reside on the beach in Boca Raton FL. TSA is no longer an operating airline. Did Hulas win? What did not go according to his plan was GJ did not flourish as a company. The flawed management of GJ were just an extension of Hulas and his beliefs. Hulas is a very smart man but his understanding of how-to manage a company is flawed. He is now going to live the lesson that he should have just maned up and moved forward to a constructive relationship with his TSA pilots. GJ is going to fade away off the airline horizon. What is really sad is the hard work the TSA and GJ pilots put in over the last 30 years will go down in history as the worst managed airlines of all time. Anyone who took a job at GJ should have done their homework as they enabled this corrupt team to continue their corrupt ways. Today the employees are connected to this corruption even if they don't even know about it or acknowledge it. As they close the doors at GJ for the last time all the employees will feel the pain of this corruption. I do not hold any ill will for these people except for any left from the TSA pilots and management who jumped ship to form GJ. They will carry this crime with them to their graves. Hulas will just fade away and the airline world will be better off for it.

1. it is the caste system (not CAS)

2. please use paragraphs.

3. thank you for the full report.

This should be a pinned post at the top of the GoJet forum. I’m going to put this on a gold plaque and sneak it into HQ in STL and hang it on the wall. Cheers
RIP Waterski

For those that do not fully understand the CAST system, here is an example. If your great great grandfather was a janitor, you are locked into that, no way out.

In America the son of a janitor can become an airline pilot. For that mater, become CEO of a corporation (look at Herman Cain.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Cain

I think that soon we will see something like this:
You don't have to be the son of a janitor to become an airline pilot, Gojet is hiring janitors too! Apply now. They will send you:
1. A logbook;
2. A pen;
3. Microsoft Flight Sim 98: and
4. Instructions on how to "log" pilot time.
Instruction and check rides are all on zoom now, no need to leave your house until the day you start your IOE.
GoJet pilots are in high demand and GoJet has no-interview flow agreements with some of history's best know airlines, TWA, Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff, Braniff 2, and Braniff 3, Midway, and Valuejet.
Don't Wait! Call Today!

I'm curious as to whether there is anyone considering going to GoJet at this time. If so, could you tell us why you would consider going to GoJet after seeing the history of how they treat people, their prospects for the future, their pay scale?

Why i chose
 

So I guess this is me. I'm choosing them because A. They're paying for my rotor transition, you instantly get into a school date unlike the other airlines, (want to start working again) and finally they have a partnership where if your military and in good standing with gojet you go to Atlas after a year. I did interview and signed with them before all the new payscales come out but hopefully gojet will announce sommething soon for FO's because honestly I'd be happy with even just 70$ an hour.

Sure I've read all the forums and all the terrible stuff but tbh like I'm just excited to get into the airlines and have the dream job. Sure if what everyone is saying is true it won't be the best job, but still the dream job, and I highly doubt this will be worse than the army. And I guess I'm overly optimistic, guess ill find out for myself in the coming weeks.

Imagine if you get through training, finish IOE, get placed on reserve in EWR and never get called to fly. You may get some hours doing volunteer on your days off. A year of that, you have 150 hours of SIC, nowhere close to upgrade to get out of there. With the current shortage of captains and dwindling flight hours overall, you'll be trapped on the low end of a seniority list that doesn't fly because nobody is getting the hours to upgrade.

Line holder FOs are currently sitting around not flying. Their flying is being given to new hires on IOE.

In the past 9 months, Gojet have gone from 20 people in class to 2-4 showing up per class. They only get the occasional street captain or visa worker.

Their management, and even some of their employees, will tell you things are great, classes are full, United loves the airplane, conversions are happening etc. It was true immediately after COVID, before the hiring cycle started to really impact their staffing. Now it's just a lie they tell to try and rescue the sinking ship they're in. You'll be the plug trying to stop that ship from sinking. Like a pyramid scam, those above you prey on the fresh meat. Gojet will sink.

Ask them for a number of pilots who have flowed to Atlas, Spirit and United. It's very, very few. And they'll find a way to screw you too. What will happen to the flow if you have a training failure? Ask them for a detailed breakdown of the training failure rate of rotor transition pilots.

Thank you for the information. Does no other regional provide financing for rotor transition? Have you called SkyWest or Envoy and asked them what they might be able to offer you? The Atlas info seems to be rather difficult to believe. Why would GJ want to invest money into you and then have you leave in a year. Can anyone let us know if GoJet actually sends people to Atlas after only a year?

One reason for those with 1500hr wanting to go to a ULCC, fastest way is probably to complete training here (immediate small class date, no trainingdelays) then put apps in.

Reserve time right now over a year, flying 15hrs/month. Great if after QOL and living in base I guess.

The Atlas programmed haven't sent anyone in years. As far as I know it's not an active program. Same with Spirit, nobody ever flows. It was halted at gojets request. Frontier terminated their flow program when Gojet was caught withholding candidates and lying about it. "no only four people wanted to flow this month, sorry".

Skywest does a tuition reimbursement up to 25k, but gojet pays 35k up front which works better for my financial situation. None of the American airlines wholly owned offer anything. They used to but not since covid. MESA does but they are super back up for class dates is my understanding.

And that is unfortunate to hear about the atlas program. I was told it was active by the recruiters hiring me.

The big question I would be asking is what the payback terms for the RTP/CTP are. If the company folds before you finish are you responsible to pay them back? Because Hulas will definitely come for his money.

I remember when I worked in the office as they were shutting down TSA, they were telling new hires in ground school "if you don't resign by Friday, we are gonna have to terminate you and you don't want that on your PRIA" and then when they quit, Hulas would come after them for the bonus money because they "resigned" before the commitment was up