April 19th Class
 

Anyone here gonna be in the April 19th class?

Yes, hello!

ATP-CTP
 

Is ATP-CTP done through Flight Safety?

a few years ago it was done through ATP Jets in Dallas

Yes I am as well! Just finished the onboarding they sent out a few days ago.

why hello there...

ATP-CTP
 

So..kinda new here. I have my ATP-CTP done ahead of time. Will everyone have that done prior to walking into class on the 19th? Or is it scheduled into the 8-10week program?

the people that don’t do it the week before coming to GoJet class

I'm a little curious,:

Skywest is starting classes in May with the people who were hired before the pandemic but by July it will be all new pilots. Skywest has 10 ERJs for American coming in the 4th quarter and 10 in the first quarter of 2022, plus 29 used CRJ-700s coming for American in 2021. GoJet is looking for financing to get planes back from Skywest that were repossessed or get those replaced. I think they will get the money and the planes, but if there is a hiccup in the economy they will probably be done. Skywest hourly pay is only 11% higher than GoJet on paper, but when you take into account soft pay and bonuses you end up with 25 to 30% more at Skywest. At Trans States airlines, near the end, they were failing nearly the entire class of new hires on their check rides but then giving them 15 minute re-checks with the purpose of making it hard for them to leave in the future. I don't know if we have been doing that but since the guys in charge of TSA are in charge of GJ I could see that strategy coming here. At GJ we fire pilots for taking FMLA leave, for taking military leave, and for trying to enforce the contract.

So my curiosity is why are people coming here rather than waiting a month or two to go to Skywest or one of the other regionals that are about to hire? Is it because Skywest's 49 new planes is only a 10% bump while 30 planes here is 100% and a quick upgrade and much better relative seniority?

For many of us its to get back in the flight deck ASAP, were taking a hit so many get the "good jobs" also, that relative seniority is a big deal, if you live in a G7 domicile I'd say come work here. Many with prior 121 also can get to the left seat, or back into the left seat much faster at G7 than SKW. Weigh your options carefully and if you feel waiting for Skywest is for you, by all means do it. best of luck

Your answer seems to be more emotional than rational. People want to go to GoJet because they want to fly for an airline. They want to fly a line rather than sitting reserve. Moving forward into 2021 the airline industry is going to be different than it was prior to 2020. Is that for better or worse? Who knows. That’s all up for debate and frankly it’s speculation. I wouldn’t discourage anyone from coming to GoJet and doing what’s best they see fit for their own future.

Personally, I’d wait for Republic over Skywest if your inclined to wait. Skywest has their own issues. Just like GoJet has their own issues. Is there a perfect regional? Honestly, it’s what works best for you and what you make of it.

- They fail you.
- They retest you fifteen minutes later, and you pass.
- Your checkride is done, so you can fly for TSA. You have a 121 checkride bust, so you can't go anywhere else relatively soon.

Did this happen? I don't know. That's how it works in theory, though.

Also heard of them pulling guys from their line checks, literally at the gate, so they wouldn’t have to pay the bonus. Seems like things got really shady towards the end.

It's a matter of relative power and a willingness to use it. TSH failed guys by giving them something that was not trained. (Usually having to do with a holding pattern exit.) Quick training, quick and short recheck and we sent them on their way humiliated, embarrassed, and scared to go against us. After we ruined their future careers for at least the next 5 years we owned them. They were also scheduled to get their signing bonus after IOE and we brought them in and told them they had to sign the updated agreement where they would not get the bonus until, if I remember correctly, a year after IOE and if they upgrade before that they would not get the bonus. To top that off we had forced upgrades before that time so in the end there was no bonus, other than what the rotor guys got for training. (Just for the record, the original agreement was still enforceable over the replaced agreement, even if the person signed the agreement, because there was no "consideration" given for the change.) Everyone signed the agreement because we made it clear there would be repercussions if they didn't.

TSH has made it clear that they are not out to make friends, they don't care if you say bad things about them, they just want your money. We offered the pilots 65,000 bonus to come here and they knew before they ever signed the agreement that we would try and F them over and not pay them. They could have told us to go to hell and not signed the change. They could have brought a lawyer in and actually got the money. Don't blame TSH for playing hard ball.

Not one guy who goes to Gojet can say he didn't know what he was getting into, they know but they still come.

So is this kind of thing still going on?

Live in STL that’s why for me, mostly and when interviewed in early March they were the only game calling me up. In the future pool a couple other places but they still aren’t hiring. I get Uncle Hulas’ house of pain is a risk but the better chance of holding a line and flying and not sitting reserve for a while is worth it to me.

Can anyone who is an active GoJet pilot comment on the current situation with pilot training and pilot morale? Are these stories true and is the training department really out to fail people?

I feel like you could make some like really bad enemies if one was to go along with that.

Would also think if there were multiple applicants who were effected by this that the FAA or a local Senator would had been notified. And if no one was to say anything then it's deserved.

What always amazed me first about TSH is the complete disregard it had for employees. What amazed me second was the fact that pilots kept coming, even when all the airlines were hiring. Oh, they promised a 56k or 65k bonus. How many went to TSH or GJ because they were promised the bonus and how many received it?

Anyone planning to go to GoJet should ask themselves one question, "Why should I put the next 30 to 40 years of my career in jeopardy and fly for Gojet?"

Well the argument can be made that every day is a risk at any aviation job volatility bottom line etc etc etc so on and so forth...that said, everyone has different levels of acceptable career risks and ways to mitigate. Theoretically, putting one’s head down and buckling down and working, driving the bus..is what we come to fly RJs for. It is a stepping stone career job and if G7 satisfies that for the people that work there and build time, then they can have happy fulfilling remainder of their careers. Point is, some people will thrive in an certain environment and others not. I suppose the goal here would be to make people a little less naive is all. But to generalize it to “why would anyone jeopardize their career” isn’t quite fair. Everyone jeopardizes their career every time we use that blue-green card with those two dead guys on it. Haha

With respect for Aztruck's optimistic viewpoint, I believe it shows a major character trait in most of us pilots that TSH is using to their advantage. Pilots naturally are optimistic and assume we can overcome any adverse situation better than just about anything else. We will work harder, we will work longer, we will work all night, we will sleep on the street, we will do whatever it takes to get something done. So we look at TSH, which is now just Gojet, and we listen to their promises and we say to ourselves, "IT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME!" and "I WILL HOLD THEM TO THE LINE, THERE ARE LAWS AND THERE IS A UNION." Basically we ignore the reality of the situation which is that WE have no say in the equation that is going to cause you to get screwed. A FA who gets breast cancer does not choose that, she doesn't choose to get a checkride that cannot be passed within a week. It's a math equation: Cost of the cancer treatment 200k, cost to fire the person and train a replacement, 5k, cost to fight a lawsuit, 30k, settlement of lawsuit 8k, total savings 157k. And only about 1 in 4 will sue. The check airman who refused to ferry a plane with no nose wheel steering from ORD to STL in a blizzard and a 15 knot crosswind didn't choose to be in that situation. Despite your talents, best efforts, hard work and preparation, there is a good chance that the math works against you and you are terminated.

And now is worse, they want to make sure you don't leave, so they simply put something into your checkride that was not trained, usually with the FMS, and they fail you. Then they train you, 15 minutes in the sim and you are signed off. But for $100 of sim time they now have an employee who is probably not going to ever leave on his own. AND THERE WAS NOTHING THAT PILOT COULD HAVE DONE. His abilities, hard work, hours and hours of preparation all were not a part of the equation.

Is this sort of thing happening at GoJet specifically or not?

Current GoJet pilots, please give your input.

I want some context. I looked at your post history, you’ve been bad mouthing GoJet since 2017. That was 4 years ago. With all due respect, I just want to know...What is your story with them? You can be as vague or as detailed as you want.

^^^^This^^^^^^

I thought it was Flight Safety that was doing the training. Is it on the type ride or some specific company 121 ride afterwards? honest question, I can't imagine FS operating like this.

At my company it’s company sim instructors teaching on company-owned (or at least exclusively leased) sims within a Flight Safety sim center. My initial check ride was performed by an APD (Aircrew Program Designee), a company check airman that’s been given evaluation authority by the FAA. I assume this is how other airlines operate, as well.

Just so you guys know, all of the misinformation you hear on this forum is by a very select few who feel they were mistreated in some way. It is all just noise. If you prepare, study and have humility, if you come with a positive and cooperative attitude, you will be just fine. No one at this airline is out to get you. They want you to succeed and get you online. Don't listen to the noise.

It is weird how TSH airlines happen to hire an abnormally high percentage of pilots that feel the need to say this stuff online relative to other airlines. TSH pilots have been saying this online since I can remember. Maybe you will be a better “hire”. Report back and let us know how it went and feel free to use a new screen name.

This. I never saw anyone "out to fail" people. There were some who didn't make it through training, but honestly, the rest of us weren't surprised.
You will need to study, in groups or by yourself...whatever works for you. They will give you all the info you need, but don't expect to be spoon fed.

Upon further reflection, I have a hard time believing that it’s all misinformation. I can honestly say that I’ve never heard these same stories from anyone at any other airline. Not even Mesa. So I ask, why is this misinformation only happening in regards to GoJet? I have personally flown with people that have left GoJet. And I usually ask how it was over there? I don’t ask for examples, but their answers are usually the same. Bad management plain and simple. Believe what you want. But I personally have a hard time believing that these stories regarding only one airline have zero merit. That said, I wish you the best of luck if you choose to disregard this information. There are plenty of reputable airlines hiring now that don’t have questionable “misinformation.”

Good try Covid. Listen, listen, listen would be my advise. As my screen name shows, I keep track of TSH and GoJet's misdeeds. Contrary to Covid's post, is is not just a "few who feel they were mistreated in some way". And it is not, "just noise". Do you see stories at Envoy, PSA, or any other airline like you see at TSH?

I collect court filings, deposition transcripts, trial transcripts, company emails, jury decisions, court opinions etc. Suits against Gojet and TSH by employees are usually in federal court and can be downloaded from the federal court website.

Anyone want to see an internal management email where the VP of Ops is directing other management to setup an employee to be fired because the employee wanted to hold the company to follow the contract? PM me. How about the VP of operations testifying that 3 years after firing a captain that he could have reinstated him with a single simulator training session followed by a checkride, and then he could be back flying. When questioned about the FAA approving that he said he did not see any reason why they wouldn't. I can send you the trial transcript. The judge didn't buy it.

Skywest has 10 times as many pilots as Gojet, I don't see people having similar stories over there.

Well said!

Well said!

Noise? There have been so many federal law suits against TSH, Compass, Trans States, and Gojet that I cannot see how you can call it just "noise". Yes, you can come to GoJet with your "positive and cooperative attitude" as almost all do and maybe make it through training unblemished. You might even spend a few years here without coming under attack yourself. But you are not going to come here and not see the willingness of the company to violate federal laws and screw employees over. The company wants you to see it so they can get you to march to their drum. They don't want you to take FMLA leave and they let you know that. They don't want you to enforce the contract and they let you know that. Military leave better be on your days off and on days they don't try to junior man you.

The best example I saw what when a check FA came out publicly for a FA Union. The company immediately suspended her, then they looked on her facebook page and found her sitting in the FO seat with the captain's hat posing for a picture. They claimed she had been flying the airplane and used that to fire her. Assuming that her friends would also be in favor of a union, they fired one or two of them too. If they really thought she was flying the plane why didn't they fire the captain too?

They play hard ball and they let you know it. They are willing to pay the price too, but they still come out ahead. Violating the law can be very profitable.

Honestly, I hope that people going to GoJet don’t experience any of this!!! But to ignore all the warning signs is a risky gamble. And honestly, we as pilots shouldn’t support companies that operate like that. We as pilots will often make huge sacrifices in the beginning of our career to build time. We are professionals and should be treated as such

Before I went to GoJet I made many sacrifices for my career. When I came to GoJet I SACRIFICED MY CAREER. It is that simple.

For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would go to GoJet after hearing all the "rumors." Especially if you are going to commute. I understand pilots don't want to be on reserve but that just shouldn't be what you base your decision on. The crews are some of the best people around at GoJet and I enjoyed working with them. That's all I can say is good. Management is horrendous, blood sucking, and extremely unprofessional. I came from the corporate finance world and made a career change to aviation. When I got to TSH, I couldn't believe the difference in professionalism. It's as if they handed an airline over to a Frat house and told them to run it. There is so much turnover. As a bonus you get the weakling Teamsters to represent you. They just agree with anything management says and will charge you monthly for it. When the company is in direct violation they literally tell you to "Fly it and grieve it."

I went to another regional and it was night and day.