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Quote:

Originally Posted by TallFlyer (Post 1522479)

Can anyone look back through those newsletters and see what the actual attrition going back a year or so has been? Just trying to get an idea if the 18 month upgrade for new hires is legit (and I already have 3,300 total, ATP, etc).

Didn't you interview everywhere and ended up at C5 recently? So, why make a lateral move now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8hourrule (Post 1522450)

First time he was ever aware of how bad Gojet destroyed his life was Indoc. Indoc at the 2nd worst airline in the history of aviation.

ha. If you think TSA is the 2nd worst airline in history, you have led a SPECTACULARLY sheltered aviation life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TallFlyer (Post 1522479)

Keep in mind, looking backwards at what previous attrition has been, isn't an indicator of future results. That's the reality at any airline. There are simply too many variables to accurately predict upgrade times with any certainty.

That said, I would say the upgrade is anywhere between 18-24 months and trending longer. We currently have FO's who are senior to many captains putting in for upgrade. However, if attrition does pick up or we find additional flying, upgrades could be significantly reduced. Keep in mind, however, that if we loose flying or attrition stops, upgrades could go even longer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBucket (Post 1522116)

I'll do the best I can here. I don't speak for anyone else other than myself. It's personally cost me a lot of career progression and $$, what the original G7 guys did. (It's done the same for the industry as a whole) It kills me every time I see someone signing up to support that. I'm not going to play internet tough guy and pretend that I go around insulting them to their faces in the terminal or anything. I just don't support what the airline stands for.

As for the OH guys, I understand their plight a little bit more than the SJS kids who are willing to stab me in the back for some seniority and that quick upgrade. But still, why not come over to TSA? Better contract, better pilot group, faster upgrade, and you're not supporting an alter-ego.

I'm not even suggesting a "jumpseat war" of any kind, I certainly don't want the TSA guys who commute on G7 to have a hard time. And I'm not going to say that the TSA guys who are "over" the G7 thing and choose to allow them on the jumpseat are "wrong". It's a personal choice, just like working at an alter ego company in the first place.

My purpose posting on these threads is to hopefully enlighten some of these starry-eyed new guys that there IS still an issue with G7 and what they stand for. The gojet guys on here like to go on and on about how there's "no stigma" and they never have problems and whatnot. I've personally seen G7 jumpseaters turned down at many different airlines. Sure, it might not be every plane or even a majority, but it happens. I know that if I'm ever on a hiring board somewhere and someone comes up with gojet on their resume, they're going to be asked why they chose to work at an airline that was formed to stab their fellow pilots in the back.

There's just no reason to go work for a bottom feeder alter-ego airline in today's hiring climate. (Unless maybe you live in RDU and REALLLLLLY want that base).

Thanks for responding.

I personally don't have a problem with you passing along information to new pilots. I think, the more information people have the better choices they can make.

Unfortunately, it does seem like you are playing Internet tough guy.
I won't ever deny a Jumpseat to anyone, based on where they work. I won't even mention it.

If you want to draw up a history of how things went down with the TSA/G7 split, I won't give you a hard time, because its factual.

I simply ask that instead of trying to flame everyone here, that you put down common sense solutions and facts. Whether or not I agree with what you put down doesn't matter. I simply ask that it is factual and can help newbies make the best choice possible for their situation.

Pilotguy143

So, seriously T- bucket, when did you get hired at TSA? Did you get hired prior to 05? How were you helping the industry when you took that job at TSA?

Let's say you got hired AFTER 05... How were you helping your fellow pilots then? TSA has had their new contract signed for what 2 years, maybe? Prior to that you had one of the WORST contracts in the entire industry... By endorsing TSA you endorsed sub par wages/ contract for everyone in the industry.

I don't know what kind of power trip you are on, in thinking some GJ guy did anything different than what YOU did to the rest of your brethren pilots out there. Same company or not..

It's one thing to go to work for an airline competing with the one you work for and another when the VERY AIRLINE YOU WORK FOR FORMS ANOTHER FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING AROUND YOUR CONTRACT SO THEY CAN PAY CHEAPER WAGES/CUT BENEFITS. When the junior guys say, "Hey, I'm willing to help you put the screws to the senior guys if I can have their stuff," it's gonna cause some hard feelings. The TSA guys tried to say enough is enough, but the guys clawing their way up said, "No, please...bend me over more as long as I can progress at the expense of anybody!" I'm not condoning any actions on this, just trying to help those of you with the "get over it" attitude to understand. And you see from PSA that this mentality is spreading throughout a regional industry when it doesn't have to. Flame on, please....

Just one thing there. I can see the hate to those few that jumped ship from TSA to G7 when this was happening. After that, you are spreading hate by association. Not really objective or fair IMHO.

Also, dont lose perspective of what was going on there. TSA's guys were saying enough is enough, but TSA's union back in those days did try to play hardball and try to stiff it to the company, BUT union knew they had absolutely no leverage whatsoever since there was no scope protection at all, union knew what could happen. They were dealing with a corporate weasel, you cant play tough guy with management when you know you got a huge back door open on your lame a$$ contract.

Just saying, when it comes time to point fingers out of hate I'd suggest pointing them to the GUILTY ones, not simply generalizing hate across a pilot group, thats childish and primitive.

Carry on...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flitestar (Post 1522677)

Hulas and other management goons couldn't get away with hosing pilots fighting for better contracts/wages/benefits if they couldn't crew the alter ego airlines being used to hose said pilots...

Agreed. But thats not gonna stop, mostly because pilots in this country (at least at the regional level) tend to be self serving individuals, period. There's no unity per se. Its messed up, Im with you, but thats not going to change any time soon unfortunately. (look at 9E for example...)

We can preach it, we can try to create a new trend of thought about sticking together, Im all for it. But when its time to trade blows with management, dont be naive and gear up accordingly, because you know that sadly, regional pilots will put "principles" aside in order to cater our needs/desires. Yes, in many ways we can be our own worst enemy.

So my point was, dont bring a knife to a gun fight.

Do not go to GoJet

Everyone pay attention here. Do NOT go to GoJet. It has all but ruined my career. The following statement was/is my experience and I feel I should warn others before they make the mistake I made by flying at GoJet.

I went to G7 and was upgraded to Captain within a year and began to accumulate 121 jet P.I.C. time flying broken a/c with many "DMI" stickers that littered the panels flying 4 and 5 legs per day on 4 day trips crediting up to 16-17 hours. I was employed for 4.5 years with a douchebag chief pilot (ex TSA) but a really great base chief pilot (also ex TSA) not fully realizing the detriment effect it would have on my career.

Now, I work for an L.C.C. making more money as an FO than I ever made as a Captain at Blowjet. Getting 18 days off per month with a/c that rarely have an M.E.L. and I must suffer crediting 23.5-26.0 hours on a four day trip all the while flying one leg per day w/ the occasional 2-3 legs on one of those 4 days. I ALWAYS have a jet bridge and crew scheduling just says "Okay" when I call in sick for a trip. Oh, the humanity. If only I would have listened to T Bucket, Shrek and others before I went to Blowjet and ruined my career. But, I didn't listen. I thought I (emphasized) knew better than them. If only I could go back in time and done things the "right" way I wouldn't have to tolerate this amazing seniority and all of the benefits that come with it along with logging time in a larger a/c. Even the former TSA folks I fly with talk to me over beers at the overnight as we share nightmare "Hulas" stories as I cry over the horrible decision I made. I did this to myself though. I constantly am reminded of this horrible decision every weekend and holiday that I am with my family at home. Poor me.