Pinnacle is separate...

I thought they'd lost that in the bankruptcy contract. Even if they haven't the number of carriers without common category for all CRJ variants is growing smaller all the time.

At least somebody gets it.

TSA was given the shot to fly those airplanes for pay rates that their union didnt think were fair. Unfortunately TSAs contract did not have strong enough scope protection in order to play tough with the company. Union still decided to play tough, and lost.

I can understand the initial animosity among pilots then. But the hate is pointed in the wrong direction.

Basically the contract you just renegotiated yanked the rug out from under the Gojet pilots in their contract negotiations. If you think Hulas will negotiate a contract that will not make them the most cost effective airline out there then you are smoking crack.

i don't care who you are, that's funny right there!:rolleyes:


did you ever stop to think that we had to negotiate against THEIR low rates with our last good contract, and that our bankrupcy contract puts us at the same level as them, if not more, with the soft pay?

and wait.....you work for trans states? have you seen your pay compared to Pinnacle? ha ha!

Not saying the Gojet contract had no effect on PCL. What I'm saying is any hope those guys had of better payrates went out the window the day you guys voted to take concessions.

Did you seriously think those concessions would have no effect on the rest of the industry?

your TSA rates are only $2 more than our bankrupcy rates!!! You didn't hear pinnacle complaining and whining about your TSA rates when we were negotiating our good contract 3 years ago, and your low pay had an influence on our low bankrupcy pay!!!!! can you say hypocrite?

and like you people told us.....all you gotta do is vote NO......right?????and then you will get what you want???? So all GJ has to do is vote NO! funny how people preach just vote NO like it is so easy, until it hits THEIR pocketbooks!

Our concessions were voted on by us for us, not go jets. Any effect our concessions have on the rest of the industry were the least of our worries, as we were voting for OUR company.

One of the reasons why we took concessions is GoJet, amount other things.
I was a no vote, but if we had gone out of business another DCI carrier would have been forced to lower their rates.
That is in direct relation to GoJet and Compass, because they're both very junior and cheap.
Express Jet will be next. Sad but true.

Funny, but CHQ flies for american and pilots on their SAME SENIORITY LIST fly 70 seaters for united. So, tell me again how Hulas couldn't do the same thing? Oh, wait, that's because the real reason gojet was created was to get around TSA's union, not AMR scope.

Go back to the title of this thread. The point the OP was making is Gojet will be more expensive than PCL so Pinnacle should pick up more flying. My point is that this will NEVER happen now, because any chance of Gojet getting better payrates is over. So the idea that Pinnacle will whipsaw Gojet is is laughable. Now PCL guys are spreading rumors that they are going to get Gojet 700s, when Gojet is getting a new 700 everytime I go by the maintenance hangar in St. Louis.

Pinnacle pilots had to decide what was best for them. Just like other pilot groups will do the same. I think PCL should be more worried about getting their act together than getting more aircraft. The history of this management team at Delta in regard to wholly owned subsidiaries is suspect at best. Best case Pinnacle gets its act together and is spun off after restructuring (like Express I). DL could sell them to another airline (like Mesaba) or worst case slowly close the doors (Comair) if Delta can't pretty Pinnacle up enough to find a buyer. If you think Delta wants to own Pinnacle long term, then you are ignoring the history of this management team at Delta and the history of Delta/Northwest when it comes to wholly owned subsidaries. Because, like Delta told Comair ten years ago "being wholly owned means everything....."

This is also true.

Here's my point, Hulas could've done it, but he didnt HAVE to, there was no scope language strong enough to stop his feet, and the union knew it, that was on them. Why would he? Weasel move, but that's what he is.

Anyways, not relevant now. Everybody has their minds set on where they point their hate. Never hurts to do some research though.

Probably just easier to create a new airline than negotiate with people not interested in reality. Planes had to be on a separate certificate; if they saw an ability to negotiate in a reasonable time period at reasonable costs; they would have.

Any truth to Wychor saying in recurrent that this is an experiment for Delta? ( friend just heard it there, curious if others have) if that is the case what happens if it doesn't pan out?

What is your point? Are you saying that the Pinnacle pilots should have negotiated lower rates so they could undercut GJ? I don't get it. Who do you work for?

Maybe someone in Delta got smart and figured out that having 8 different companies flying their passengers around providing subpar service is more expensive than actually just flying the airplanes with their own staff. The redundancy in mechanics, management, scheduling, HR and all the other departments means that Delta is paying much more than they would have to if they staffed the plans themselves. Delta is, after all, an airline - in business to fly passengers around in airplanes. I wonder how big of a team Delta has to have internally just to deal with the DCI carriers.

Read the original post. My point is there is no way Gojet pilots are somehow going to negotiate higher payrates after PCLs concessionary contract so you can whipsaw them.

Remove Pinnacle, insert Comair and the same thing was being said 10 years ago. Look at Delta's history, look at the history of this management team. The best thing for Pinnacle and its employees is to get sold or spun off as quickly as possible to get away from Delta ownership. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Delta has a large portfolio of carriers to drive costs down. It works and has made millions for Mother Delta while devastating the regional industry. They're not about to ditch a concept that has made them so much money and worked so well for their bottom line.

Delta needed to stabilize Pinnacle because they could not replace its feed overnight. Now that PCL is stabilized, either it gets sold or pieced out.

I guess you have it all figured out then. You should become a career counselor for pilots. Where do you work?

This is apples to oranges to what happened to Comair. The same could be said for Delta management. They were able to back us into a corner and get 12 year captain and 4 year FO rate caps. I love how you know it alls just look at what you want to see instead of looking at the whole picture

Delta bought PNCL (A once 1 billion dollar holding company) for 74.3 million. My guess Delta will sell PNCL for a nice profit once it builds it up. Not a bad ROI if you look at it. Keep the company private until its ready for sale.

You don't even have to worry about the company's ability to gain business since you (Delta) own all the cards to make the company (PNCL) look good on paper. A little name change and bedazzle and you got yourself a good looking company in the public sector.

So Gojets, even if PNCL is more expensive, may lose their 700's at the potential of a future sale of the company for millions if not billions! Not the same case for Comair. Better to close than sell the company off. PNCL could end up in the same situation as Comair, but not likely since it seems obvious that Delta wants to make a profit off PNCL.

OR...

Delta wishes to save money on operational expenses with PNCL, but that is chump change in comparison to what they can make on their ROI from the purchase of PNCL.

So yes...GOJETS your 700's are in danger. Just some thoughts...

I think Pinnacle is about to become an experiment in shared alter ego operations. If it fails, we will get shut down; Successful, we get a lot more flying.

You lost me there somewhere between where Delta wants to make a profit on Pinnacle, but didn't with Comair...? :confused:

Maybe because some of us know it alls have been working in this industry for a while and have the scars to prove it.

A. None of your business.
B. Why do you care?
C. I worked at Pinnacle and Comair for a while......what's your point?

Deeeeelllllleeeetttteeee

Bingo.....

I too have been in this industry for a while, and I have a few scars of my own. I'm not sure why you're assuming here. My point is there are differences that you seem unwilling to acknollage.

Express I, Mesaba, ASA, Comair......Now Pinnacle. In every case this management team at Delta/Northwest eventually removed the regional airline from its books. Why is Pinnacle any different?

In every case but one (Express I) the employees were worse off after the company was sold or shut down.

And it seems some of you are ignoring the similarities...BUT it seems

1. People on the outside think 9E will go the way of Comair.

2. People on the inside think 9E will flourish.

Which one is it? No one knows, and agruing about who is more well versed in the outcome of 9E is getting old. Personally, all I care about at this point is that my carrier doesn't get hurt from this deal and hopefully Daddy D hires off the street so EVERYONE can have a shot at getting a job. I am curious about some of the thought processes recently though but that is not important.
Continue

Next time go to a bottom feeder it works out better

Nope, I'm not ignoring the similarities at all. I just feel I'm doing a better job looking at the whole picture. I'm not claiming to know the future either, and I agree it's getting old when people claim they know exactly what the outcome will be as if they have a crystal ball.

This thread is trash without facts . Who cares . Don't know why everyone seems to get all worked up on this ? Just more fuel to fed the fire

Pinnacle is not comair!!!!!! That is a fact.

Pinnacle pilots do not fly both the -200 and the -900. They are two separate groups.

"Go Pinnacle Jetzzzzzzz" name change

Phase 1: Collect underpants
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Profit

South Park Underpants Gnomes Profit Plan - YouTube

I am curious why everyone says 9E will be the next comair and not the next, Mesaba, compass, ASA, Express 1. I might be forgetting someone but these were all companies owned by Delta/NW and they were not shut down. Now I agree that we will be smaller then we were when we filed Bankruptcy, we already are, but we might get more 700's and 900's in the process so this is hardly being "Comaired". We might go the way of comair but nobody really knows.

Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bottom line: until there are pairings to bid on, they don't exist.