Weird Weather Encounter
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 96
"When flying in significant electrical activity, I've often wondered about the potential to be a path to ground through the flight controls while holding a yoke or stick. Zap."
A freind of mine tried to top a building cell in a T-38 many years ago. It caught up with him and spit him out 20000 feet lower with one engine out. He said every time he touched the stick he got a shock.
A freind of mine tried to top a building cell in a T-38 many years ago. It caught up with him and spit him out 20000 feet lower with one engine out. He said every time he touched the stick he got a shock.
#12
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,006
I don't doubt it's possible. I've never experienced that, despite hands-on through significant lightning activity, and a lot of lightning strikes on the airframe. The proper path would need to be made through the structure and the pilot touching the stick or yoke would need to offer a lower path of resistance to or from ground or along the circuit formed by the discharge. It's not something that's widely heard about, either, and other atmospheric projects haven't shown it to be a big concern. That is to say, it doesn't seem to be something most worry about. I'm lightning-averse, having had some significant shocks and having been close to several lightning strikes on the ground, I don't like being near it. I don't like being blinded, I don't like the noise, and I don't like the shock. So, despite not having experienced it during thunderstorm research, it's always something I've considered. I suppose it's one of those things that, just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it won't.
I got knocked off my feet and unconscious while chaining down an aircraft with a storm in progress. I never saw the lightning, but others who were watching did, and described it to me. I woke up with them standing over me, and I do remember being unable to get go of the chain. I know individuals who have been subject to multiple strikes while in fire observation towers and on mountains during lightning activity. Personally, I feel more like Captain Hook and his crocodile phobia, when it comes to lightning. We've all got our thing, and mine is largely conditioned after exposure. I work hard to stay well away from convective activity and lightning any more; I've seen enough to satisfy me for this lifetime, and I'm quite happy to never come close to another thunderstorm again. Others can have it.
Where there's lightning, you'll find me hiding indoors, under the couch, with the bugs and dust bunnies.
I got knocked off my feet and unconscious while chaining down an aircraft with a storm in progress. I never saw the lightning, but others who were watching did, and described it to me. I woke up with them standing over me, and I do remember being unable to get go of the chain. I know individuals who have been subject to multiple strikes while in fire observation towers and on mountains during lightning activity. Personally, I feel more like Captain Hook and his crocodile phobia, when it comes to lightning. We've all got our thing, and mine is largely conditioned after exposure. I work hard to stay well away from convective activity and lightning any more; I've seen enough to satisfy me for this lifetime, and I'm quite happy to never come close to another thunderstorm again. Others can have it.
Where there's lightning, you'll find me hiding indoors, under the couch, with the bugs and dust bunnies.
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 96
I don't doubt it's possible. I've never experienced that, despite hands-on through significant lightning activity, and a lot of lightning strikes on the airframe. The proper path would need to be made through the structure and the pilot touching the stick or yoke would need to offer a lower path of resistance to or from ground or along the circuit formed by the discharge. It's not something that's widely heard about, either, and other atmospheric projects haven't shown it to be a big concern. That is to say, it doesn't seem to be something most worry about. I'm lightning-averse, having had some significant shocks and having been close to several lightning strikes on the ground, I don't like being near it. I don't like being blinded, I don't like the noise, and I don't like the shock. So, despite not having experienced it during thunderstorm research, it's always something I've considered. I suppose it's one of those things that, just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it won't.
I got knocked off my feet and unconscious while chaining down an aircraft with a storm in progress. I never saw the lightning, but others who were watching did, and described it to me. I woke up with them standing over me, and I do remember being unable to get go of the chain. I know individuals who have been subject to multiple strikes while in fire observation towers and on mountains during lightning activity. Personally, I feel more like Captain Hook and his crocodile phobia, when it comes to lightning. We've all got our thing, and mine is largely conditioned after exposure. I work hard to stay well away from convective activity and lightning any more; I've seen enough to satisfy me for this lifetime, and I'm quite happy to never come close to another thunderstorm again. Others can have it.
Where there's lightning, you'll find me hiding indoors, under the couch, with the bugs and dust bunnies.
I got knocked off my feet and unconscious while chaining down an aircraft with a storm in progress. I never saw the lightning, but others who were watching did, and described it to me. I woke up with them standing over me, and I do remember being unable to get go of the chain. I know individuals who have been subject to multiple strikes while in fire observation towers and on mountains during lightning activity. Personally, I feel more like Captain Hook and his crocodile phobia, when it comes to lightning. We've all got our thing, and mine is largely conditioned after exposure. I work hard to stay well away from convective activity and lightning any more; I've seen enough to satisfy me for this lifetime, and I'm quite happy to never come close to another thunderstorm again. Others can have it.
Where there's lightning, you'll find me hiding indoors, under the couch, with the bugs and dust bunnies.
You won't hear much, widely or not, about us dumb shts, topping tstms back in that day, and getting shocked because most of us succeeded due to dumb luck.
#14
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,006
Still, it can certainly happen to anyone near convective activity, or in an area conductive to electrical discharges (dusty atmosphere, etc).
#15
We had the this happen once during cruise on top in the moonlight. We're enroute between DFW and TLH weaving around some big ugly heads that pushed up through the tops, radios start to get scratchy, St. Elmo's picks up across the windscreen, then the nose lights up and start glowing? I checked the landing light switches to see if they're on, no they're confirmed off, weirdest thing.
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,533
I am no weather researcher, and have been in the airline business for over 30 years, in both turboprops and jets. Can’t say I’ve had many direct encounters with lightning or discharges, thankfully (other than the usual St. Elmo’s Fire), but I took one direct hit at night to the number 1 VHF antenna in an Airbus a few years ago, which is above and just aft of the cockpit. Hand flying through light turbulence and green all over the radar, with a little yellow and red around. It was SO loud and the brightest light I have ever witnessed. The LCD screens all went FULL bright in response, which helped me see them after a blink and a mutual “wtf” glance between us. I never want to experience that again, lol.
One other time, we were climbing out of IAH, headed back to MIA at night. We were up high at cruise altitude, fully enveloped in stratus between some big cells in the area, although none were closer than maybe 30 miles or so. We had some radio static and St. Elmo’s as expected, but then I started to notice a light bluish glow envelope the cockpit and quickly intensify and start to focus out directly in front of us, turning into what I’d describe as similar to a large Star Wars Light Sabre that grew like Pinocchio’s nose out ahead of the aircraft. In maybe 10 seconds it had reached out what seemed like 30 to 40 feet ahead of us, and then just suddenly flashed like a small discharge and was gone. No sound at all.
One other time, we were climbing out of IAH, headed back to MIA at night. We were up high at cruise altitude, fully enveloped in stratus between some big cells in the area, although none were closer than maybe 30 miles or so. We had some radio static and St. Elmo’s as expected, but then I started to notice a light bluish glow envelope the cockpit and quickly intensify and start to focus out directly in front of us, turning into what I’d describe as similar to a large Star Wars Light Sabre that grew like Pinocchio’s nose out ahead of the aircraft. In maybe 10 seconds it had reached out what seemed like 30 to 40 feet ahead of us, and then just suddenly flashed like a small discharge and was gone. No sound at all.
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
We had some radio static and St. Elmo’s as expected, but then I started to notice a light bluish glow envelope the cockpit and quickly intensify and start to focus out directly in front of us, turning into what I’d describe as similar to a large Star Wars Light Sabre that grew like Pinocchio’s nose out ahead of the aircraft. In maybe 10 seconds it had reached out what seemed like 30 to 40 feet ahead of us, and then just suddenly flashed like a small discharge and was gone. No sound at all.
#18
What do you think this was? I was flying around some heavy weather taking off out of Medellin. Night IMC, lightning flashing all over the place. We were on the SID because of all the terrain and had to fly into the green/yellow radar returns. We were getting nonstop St. Elmo’s Fire. Then all of the sudden, our radome lit up like a Christmas tree. A continuous cone shaped plume of purple/pink glowing plasma engulfed the windshield. It literally looked like we were the space shuttle reentering the atmosphere from space. I don’t think it was a lightning strike because there was no evidence of anything on the walk-around and it wasn’t a quick flash... it was a constant almost “blow torch” look. Any ideas?
#19
My mom was a flight attendant for Northwest Orient and has a similar story about ball lightning. She said it went from the front to the back down the aisle, and when they called the flight deck after it happened the pilots had no idea anything was out of the ordinary.
Too busy dealing with the :
1.) Blinded copilot who foolishly leaned forward at night and looked out the window when I pointed out the "lance" lighting forming on the nose 30 seconds after severe St. Elmo's Fire (Sorry about that dude. "Learned about flying from that" and all)
2.) Failed autopilot(s).
3.) The complete failure of the weather radar at just about the time we really, REALLY needed it.
Glad I'm not the only one, because I thought they were crazy.
Postflight maintenance showed me the nose cone: looked like a baseball had impacted the inside of it on the interior only.
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 171
In a former life I did atmospheric research, flying in and out of thunderstorms, and saw a lot of interesting electrical activity around the aircraft, and in the aircraft.
What you're describing sounds similar to something I experienced about fifteen years ago in an area where there was considerable airborne dust, but no convective activity. I became aware of a soft blue glow from several points outside the cockpit, which became brighter until they formed what looked somewhat like those dancing tube guys that you see at car dealerships, waving in a flickering pattern ahead of the aircraft; at that point they were a greenish glow that had a simliar hue and appearance to the Aurora, a little like dancing flames extending off in three radials, or lobes. They gradually merged from the radome area, extending forward, in what seemed to be about twenty five or thirty feet ahead; I can't really say because it would have been hard to give a definitive answer. Somewhere out ahead. At that point, the one lobe was about the circumference of the radome, and increasing in intensity toward a yellowish hue. I was on the edge of my seat, fascinated, as I'd never seen anything like it.
A loud crack or report sounded, which accompanied a blinding white flash, like a lightning strike. In lightning, turn the cockpit lights bright. I'd turned everything down so I could get a better view. I was unable to see my hand in front of my face. I asked my compadre if he saw it, and he mumbled "uh-huh." I noted I was blind, and asked if he could see. He mumbled, "nope." Our vision returned shortly after that, and we joined an approach and landed. The event occurred at night. On the ground, I found holes and burn marks all over the radome, fuselage, wingtips, and numerous other places. Ultimately, the engines were removed, the airplane and engines degaussed, and the aircraft returned to service.
I was given some heat about allowing a lightning strike and accused of putting the airplane in the position to be struck, in a thunder cell. In that case, there was no cell anywhere in the area, nor did anything show on radar leading up to the event, which I'd describe as a massive discharge. No further signs were obvious, or occurred after the discharge. I strongly suspected the higher dust content where we were flying, helped contribute.
Some time later I had a conversation with someone in the maintenance about the event. "Didn't anyone tell you?" he asked. The aircraft had been painted, and bonding straps and discharge wicks placed over the paint, with no electrical bond. The paint was never removed from the bonding sites, meaning that the aircraft built a charge that it couldn't dissipate, until the charge finally passed through control hinge points, engines, etc, causing considerable damage. The flight control hinges were burned.
I can't speculate as to why you saw what you did, but there are numerous manifestations of electrical charge around aircraft, which range from the familiar corona or St. Elmo's dancing around or flickering, to discharges around the structure, buildup of a glow or corona around various components such as radomes, engine inlets, propellers, etc, to discharges which can occur within the cabin, or visible manifestation of electrical arcing or progress through the interior.
So far as those. yellow and green returns go; be aware that some of the worst I've experienced in a thunderstorm wasn't in the red and magenta parts, though we flew back and forth through some massive cells; the worst I ever experienced was in the black and green on the upshear, or building side of a cell, and it was rising moist air from beneath the aricraft (we estimated 12,000 fpm rising), which rolled me inverted, caused a shaker and then a pusher activation, and broke things on board, including my headset, and a computer chassis in a case...stripped a drive right out of the chassis. We're all aware of radar shadows, where returns can obscure what is beyond through attenuation, but there's bad stuff above and below, depending on where you are. Don't forget use of your tilt, and remember that even in returns that look not-so-bad like simple Level 1-2 returns, it may herald something that far exceeds the capability of the aircraft to respond. Been there. Don't you go there. Have an out, and always consider a divert, if needed. Extra fuel is a good thing.
What you're describing sounds similar to something I experienced about fifteen years ago in an area where there was considerable airborne dust, but no convective activity. I became aware of a soft blue glow from several points outside the cockpit, which became brighter until they formed what looked somewhat like those dancing tube guys that you see at car dealerships, waving in a flickering pattern ahead of the aircraft; at that point they were a greenish glow that had a simliar hue and appearance to the Aurora, a little like dancing flames extending off in three radials, or lobes. They gradually merged from the radome area, extending forward, in what seemed to be about twenty five or thirty feet ahead; I can't really say because it would have been hard to give a definitive answer. Somewhere out ahead. At that point, the one lobe was about the circumference of the radome, and increasing in intensity toward a yellowish hue. I was on the edge of my seat, fascinated, as I'd never seen anything like it.
A loud crack or report sounded, which accompanied a blinding white flash, like a lightning strike. In lightning, turn the cockpit lights bright. I'd turned everything down so I could get a better view. I was unable to see my hand in front of my face. I asked my compadre if he saw it, and he mumbled "uh-huh." I noted I was blind, and asked if he could see. He mumbled, "nope." Our vision returned shortly after that, and we joined an approach and landed. The event occurred at night. On the ground, I found holes and burn marks all over the radome, fuselage, wingtips, and numerous other places. Ultimately, the engines were removed, the airplane and engines degaussed, and the aircraft returned to service.
I was given some heat about allowing a lightning strike and accused of putting the airplane in the position to be struck, in a thunder cell. In that case, there was no cell anywhere in the area, nor did anything show on radar leading up to the event, which I'd describe as a massive discharge. No further signs were obvious, or occurred after the discharge. I strongly suspected the higher dust content where we were flying, helped contribute.
Some time later I had a conversation with someone in the maintenance about the event. "Didn't anyone tell you?" he asked. The aircraft had been painted, and bonding straps and discharge wicks placed over the paint, with no electrical bond. The paint was never removed from the bonding sites, meaning that the aircraft built a charge that it couldn't dissipate, until the charge finally passed through control hinge points, engines, etc, causing considerable damage. The flight control hinges were burned.
I can't speculate as to why you saw what you did, but there are numerous manifestations of electrical charge around aircraft, which range from the familiar corona or St. Elmo's dancing around or flickering, to discharges around the structure, buildup of a glow or corona around various components such as radomes, engine inlets, propellers, etc, to discharges which can occur within the cabin, or visible manifestation of electrical arcing or progress through the interior.
So far as those. yellow and green returns go; be aware that some of the worst I've experienced in a thunderstorm wasn't in the red and magenta parts, though we flew back and forth through some massive cells; the worst I ever experienced was in the black and green on the upshear, or building side of a cell, and it was rising moist air from beneath the aricraft (we estimated 12,000 fpm rising), which rolled me inverted, caused a shaker and then a pusher activation, and broke things on board, including my headset, and a computer chassis in a case...stripped a drive right out of the chassis. We're all aware of radar shadows, where returns can obscure what is beyond through attenuation, but there's bad stuff above and below, depending on where you are. Don't forget use of your tilt, and remember that even in returns that look not-so-bad like simple Level 1-2 returns, it may herald something that far exceeds the capability of the aircraft to respond. Been there. Don't you go there. Have an out, and always consider a divert, if needed. Extra fuel is a good thing.
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