Ukraine conflict
#2501
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absolute strawman argument. The fact that you cannot see that a destabilize Europe would inevitably affect the United States is slightly odd for a man that pretends to be so smart. This is not about altruism for the United States. This is about national self interest. And making sure that we can shape policy on the global scale. Obviously all of this has been said already, and you just choose to disregard the importance of being top dog. Your foot may be out the door, but I still have at least 30 years (hopefully).
i’ll say it one more time since you seem to not understand. I have never once posted unsolicited personal opinion on this whole topic for probably 18 months. I am merely making sure that Cargo knows he can’t get away with his agenda here. I have only ever responded to him. he is a slave to Russian propaganda and I will happily fight that anywhere I see it
i’ll say it one more time since you seem to not understand. I have never once posted unsolicited personal opinion on this whole topic for probably 18 months. I am merely making sure that Cargo knows he can’t get away with his agenda here. I have only ever responded to him. he is a slave to Russian propaganda and I will happily fight that anywhere I see it
So if you want a stable Europe get the European countries to actually fund their own defense and by the European countries I mean those with large populations and big GDPs, like France, Germany, Italy, etc. Sure, I know Estonia is doing more than its part but Estonia has a population of 1.33 million, Lithuania under 3 million, with less than $100 billion gdp between the two of them. Spain alone has $1.5 Trillion, but the big countries sit back and want the old US of A to carry them. That's BS. If the MAJOR countries in Europe don't care enough to fund their own defense I don't see why the US taxpayer should. That's not Russian propaganda, that's common sense.
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#2502
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absolute strawman argument. The fact that you cannot see that a destabilize Europe would inevitably affect the United States is slightly odd for a man that pretends to be so smart. This is not about altruism for the United States. This is about national self interest. And making sure that we can shape policy on the global scale. Obviously all of this has been said already, and you just choose to disregard the importance of being top dog. Your foot may be out the door, but I still have at least 30 years (hopefully).
i’ll say it one more time since you seem to not understand. I have never once posted unsolicited personal opinion on this whole topic for probably 18 months. I am merely making sure that Cargo knows he can’t get away with his agenda here. I have only ever responded to him. he is a slave to Russian propaganda and I will happily fight that anywhere I see it
i’ll say it one more time since you seem to not understand. I have never once posted unsolicited personal opinion on this whole topic for probably 18 months. I am merely making sure that Cargo knows he can’t get away with his agenda here. I have only ever responded to him. he is a slave to Russian propaganda and I will happily fight that anywhere I see it
Ukraine, Iran, Israel, N Korea, Afrika. Fentanyl, random shootings, impassable roadways, contaminated water, endemic corruption. America’s dream is on one knee. Blindly paying off defense grifters for more protection isn’t the answer. It’s ruin. Prognosis for the next 30 years, guarded at best. Don’t forsake us squab keeper.
#2503
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the action plan culminated in 2009 with Ukraine codifying into law in 2010 a neutral status where it could not join military alliances. This was to appease the pro Russian government. Then RU invaded in 2014 for wheat fields and a deep water port. If russia played it cool ukraine would still be in the non military alliance camp.
nice try pigeon
#2504
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you have a point that they teased with nato at the start, but you seem to have purposefully left out the 4 years preceding the invasion of crimea. I wonder why?
the action plan culminated in 2009 with Ukraine codifying into law in 2010 a neutral status where it could not join military alliances. This was to appease the pro Russian government. Then RU invaded in 2014 for wheat fields and a deep water port. If russia played it cool ukraine would still be in the non military alliance camp.
nice try pigeon
the action plan culminated in 2009 with Ukraine codifying into law in 2010 a neutral status where it could not join military alliances. This was to appease the pro Russian government. Then RU invaded in 2014 for wheat fields and a deep water port. If russia played it cool ukraine would still be in the non military alliance camp.
nice try pigeon
Ukraine’s membership aspirations
- In response to Ukraine’s aspirations for NATO membership, Allies agreed at the 2008 Bucharest Summit that Ukraine will become a member of NATO. They also agreed that Ukraine’s next step on its way to membership was the Membership Action Plan (MAP), NATO’s programme of political, economic, defence, resource, security and legal reforms for aspirant countries. In 2009, the Annual National Programme was introduced as Ukraine’s key instrument to advance its Euro-Atlantic integration and related reforms.
- From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression. In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.
- In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO. In September 2022, following Russia’s illegal attempted annexations of Ukrainian territory, Ukraine reiterated its request for NATO membership.
#2505
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"From 2010 to 2014, Ukraine pursued a non-alignment policy, which it terminated in response to Russia’s aggression."
#2506
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oh the irony of posting anything after RU invaded crimea…..
good little vlad is gonna vlad
#2507
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So do a survey Vlod. Russian propagandist or cold warrior with a grudge. Let the bb weigh in. While you’re at it; Hubcapped, E block heritage crusader or angry man with a hang up for fox channel and foul droppings.
#2508
#2509
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From Encyclopedia Britannia:
The bloodiest week in Ukraine’s post-Soviet history concluded on February 21 with an EU-brokered agreement between Yanukovych and opposition leaders that called for early elections and the formation of an interim unity government. The parliament responded by overwhelmingly approving the restoration of the 2004 constitution, thus reducing the power of the presidency. In subsequent votes, the parliament approved a measure granting full amnesty to protesters, fired internal affairs minister Vitaliy Zakharchenko for his role in ordering the crackdown on the Maidan, and decriminalized elements of the legal code under which Tymoshenko had been prosecuted. Yanukovych, his power base crumbling, fled the capital ahead of an impeachment vote that stripped him of his powers as president. Meanwhile, Tymoshenko, who had been released from prison, traveled to Kyiv, where she delivered an impassioned speech to the crowd assembled in the Maidan. Fatherland deputy leader Oleksandr Turchynov was appointed acting president, a move that Yanukovych decried as a coup d’état. On February 24 the interim government charged Yanukovych with mass murderin connection with the deaths of the Maidan protesters and issued a warrant for his arrest.
Ukraine crisis: Sevastopol
Unidentified soldiers accompanied by Russian military vehicles patrolling Sevastopol, Ukraine, on March 1, 2014, a few weeks before Russia annexed Crimea and the city.(more)As pro-Russian protesters became increasingly assertive in Crimea, groups of armed men whose uniforms lacked any clear identifying marks surrounded the airports in Simferopol and Sevastopol. Masked gunmen occupied the Crimean parliament building and raised a Russian flag, as pro-Russian lawmakers dismissed the sitting government and installed Sergey Aksyonov, the leader of the Russian Unity Party, as Crimea’s prime minister. Voice and data links between Crimea and Ukraine were severed, and Russian authorities acknowledged that they had moved troops into the region. Turchynov criticized the action as a provocation and a violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, while Russian Pres. Vladimir Putincharacterized it as an effort to protect Russian citizens and military assets in Crimea. Aksyonov declared that he, and not the government in Kyiv, was in command of Ukrainian police and military forces in Crimea.
On March 6 the Crimean parliament voted to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, with a public referendum on the matter scheduled for March 16, 2014. The move was hailed by Russia and broadly condemned in the West. Meanwhile, Yatsenyuk affirmed Kyiv’s position that Crimea was an integral part of Ukraine. On the day of the referendum, observers noted numerous irregularities in the voting process, including the presence of armed men at polling stations, and the result was an overwhelming 97 percent in favour of joining Russia. The interim government in Kyiv rejected the result, and the United States and the EU imposed asset freezes and travel bans on numerous Russian officials and members of the Crimean parliament. On March 18 Putin met with Aksyonov and other regional representatives and signed a treaty incorporating Crimea into the Russian Federation. Western governments protested the move. Within hours of the treaty’s signing, a Ukrainian soldier was killed when masked gunmen stormed a Ukrainian military base outside Simferopol. Russian troops moved to occupy bases throughout the peninsula, including Ukrainian naval headquarters in Sevastopol, as Ukraine initiated the evacuation of some 25,000 military personnel and their families from Crimea. On March 21 after the ratification of the annexation treaty by the Russian parliament, Putin signed a law formally integrating Crimea into Russia
Ukraine crisis: Sevastopol
Unidentified soldiers accompanied by Russian military vehicles patrolling Sevastopol, Ukraine, on March 1, 2014, a few weeks before Russia annexed Crimea and the city.(more)As pro-Russian protesters became increasingly assertive in Crimea, groups of armed men whose uniforms lacked any clear identifying marks surrounded the airports in Simferopol and Sevastopol. Masked gunmen occupied the Crimean parliament building and raised a Russian flag, as pro-Russian lawmakers dismissed the sitting government and installed Sergey Aksyonov, the leader of the Russian Unity Party, as Crimea’s prime minister. Voice and data links between Crimea and Ukraine were severed, and Russian authorities acknowledged that they had moved troops into the region. Turchynov criticized the action as a provocation and a violation of Ukrainian sovereignty, while Russian Pres. Vladimir Putincharacterized it as an effort to protect Russian citizens and military assets in Crimea. Aksyonov declared that he, and not the government in Kyiv, was in command of Ukrainian police and military forces in Crimea.
On March 6 the Crimean parliament voted to secede from Ukraine and join the Russian Federation, with a public referendum on the matter scheduled for March 16, 2014. The move was hailed by Russia and broadly condemned in the West. Meanwhile, Yatsenyuk affirmed Kyiv’s position that Crimea was an integral part of Ukraine. On the day of the referendum, observers noted numerous irregularities in the voting process, including the presence of armed men at polling stations, and the result was an overwhelming 97 percent in favour of joining Russia. The interim government in Kyiv rejected the result, and the United States and the EU imposed asset freezes and travel bans on numerous Russian officials and members of the Crimean parliament. On March 18 Putin met with Aksyonov and other regional representatives and signed a treaty incorporating Crimea into the Russian Federation. Western governments protested the move. Within hours of the treaty’s signing, a Ukrainian soldier was killed when masked gunmen stormed a Ukrainian military base outside Simferopol. Russian troops moved to occupy bases throughout the peninsula, including Ukrainian naval headquarters in Sevastopol, as Ukraine initiated the evacuation of some 25,000 military personnel and their families from Crimea. On March 21 after the ratification of the annexation treaty by the Russian parliament, Putin signed a law formally integrating Crimea into Russia
#2510
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Yep. The Maidan revolution deposed the government that had been pursuing that non-alignment policy and restored an earlier version of the constitution and put in a pro EU (and NATO) government in February. At that the whole non-aligned idea was in the crapper.
From Encyclopedia Britannia:
But let's give Slice and Hub the benefit of the doubt and just assume that they are legitimately ignorant of Ukrainian History and not attempting another Sophist smear. Lord knows Hub is legitimately ignorant about other factors that have led into this carnage.
From Encyclopedia Britannia:
But let's give Slice and Hub the benefit of the doubt and just assume that they are legitimately ignorant of Ukrainian History and not attempting another Sophist smear. Lord knows Hub is legitimately ignorant about other factors that have led into this carnage.
but yeah it could have happened your way where the RU was peacefully minding its business and then was defending itself against ukranian nazis…….
ukraine was trying to stay neutral and have free trade with the EU, RU wasnt having it, they attempted to force pro RU legislation through proxy, the ukranians werent having that…..war.
too easy gentlemen, too easy
are you purposely not mentioning the events that lead up to victors removal? Its the very essence of what we are discussing.
This is why you dont play chess with a desperate and obsessed maga pigeon.
do you not feel even a slight twinge of shame attempting to justify RUs invasion? Even a little?
Last edited by Hubcapped; 03-09-2024 at 01:34 AM.
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