Anyone think the 50 hours in class for an ATP add-on may eventually go away?

Seems like it discourages advanced training.

 

FAA's AC-61-138A addresses the academic guidelines. It's the opposite of discouraging advanced training. Instead it addresses areas that people pursuing their ATP's might have no clue about. The ARC (Aviation Rulemaking Committee) had representatitves from 9 areas get together and hash out what they thought new ATP's need to have awareness of. I just read the 10 pages of academic subjects and thought it was a pretty good foundation for low time pilots moving forward.

Pages 10-20 have the subject areas to cover -

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/...AC_61-138A.pdf

 

What are you trying to add on?

 

Chasing ATP ratings. MEL, MES, SEL, SES.

Wished that it would be easier for him but that would require less knowledgeable pilots for everyone else. The industry apparently doesn't think the tradeoff is worth it.

It was good reading the Advisory Circular. I was thinking about going to the local flight school and volunteering some time to teach....and viola, AC-138A teaches it. A lot of the old hangar flying stuff we could ask the 'old heads' is now taught in the ATP-CTP. Kudos to the ARC for putting it together.

 

ATP SES & MES.

 

You have to do all that for add-ons? Seems like rules that should apply to your initial ATP only.

I'd probably just stick with CPL add-ons. There's almost zero practical use for any ATP other than MEL.

 

I agree. Maybe 50 in class for the initial ATP would be a good idea. Which by far would be for the ATP MEL.

But having to log 50 hours SES and 50 MES is very cost prohibitive. Think tens-of-thousands of dollars. 😳 Just to qualify to take the checkride.
Definitely discourages me from seeking the advanced training just for an add-on rating.

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-1...section-61.159

(3) 50 hours of flight time in the class of airplane for the rating sought. A maximum of 25 hours of training in a full flight simulator representing the class of airplane for the rating sought may be credited toward the flight time requirement of this paragraph if the training was accomplished as part of an approved training course in parts 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter. A flight training device or aviation training device may not be used to satisfy this requirement.

 

"Advanced training"...horse hockey. You're trying to add ratings for bragging rights and nothing more. This isn't furthering education or seeking advanced learning. You're trying to put ink on your ticket to show you've got something others don't, and you've posted here, starting numerous threads in multiple forums, to state just that.

You've also complained that you make too much money to change jobs, advertising what you're making (over half a milion a year, was it?) with your "golden handcuffs."

You can afford to buy a light twin and stick floats on it, or go buy an aircam, or whatever it is you want to do. You can hammer out the commercial without needing the fifty hours, but it's the ATP you want. Not for a job. You're too "handcuffed," for that, but just to brag. You've been hemming and hawing about this for what, two years or more now? Three? Hopefully that level of indecision doesn't show up on the line.

Most who get their ATP in category and class (eg, airplane, multi-engine sea) do so after getting it at the commercial level, and working, gaining the experience, and then going for the ATP (in the rare cases it's needed). They're doing it to use it, as opposed to doing it for show.

Why should the FAA (or anyone else) care if you're being discouraged from bragging rights? You're not being discouraged from a career, or a job, or even an altruistic "advanced training" or higher level of enlightenment or education.

If getting that rating is really that important to you, then either:
Get it at the commercial level and fly off the hours, or
Add it to your CFI and go teach it and fly off the hours, or
Go buy an airplane or rent an airplane or fly off the hours, or
Tilt at windmills and crusade to have a paltry fifty hours reduced in the regulation, or
Make a decision and stop whining about it.

How many more threads to ask this same thing again and again, from this angle or that angle?

If you wanna get the MES ATP, then it's gonna cost you. Or you can work for someone who will pay for it, for you (there are a few...go work for Bridger doing Part 135 for several seasons in a light twin or single, and eventually you may get selected to train in their twin otter...they bought a twin otter on floats just to get people hours and ratings, to put them in the CL415. Done. Of course, you don't want to give up those golden handcuffs for bragging rights, do you? Perhaps it comes down to paying for it, vs. earning it, in order to brag.

Fifty hours isn't just about doing the bare minimum qualification that most do, ten hours or so, to add on a "fun" float rating. For a multi engine sea, where two engines can be a benefit, or a problem when dealing with docking, crosswinds, rivers, etc, fifty hours isn't much. While ATP is glorified instrument rating, you're asking for privileges to act at the ATP level and the ability to hold yourself out as capable of operating at that level. Fifty hours isn't much of anything.

Unless, of course, it's just for bragging rights.

 

Seems like it discourages *ratings collectors.

*Fixed it for ya