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Business Class Deadheads

Old 08-05-2016, 09:12 AM
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Default Business Class Deadheads

FYI: The company has been putting us on a lot of low $$ Business Class deadheads International that do not have 175 degrees of seat angle or higher. It's very hard if not impossible to get adequate rest, and we need to grieve this now. 4 of us were put on JAL on the B787 with a "SHELL FLAT NEO" seat that is only 171 degrees. We need to start documenting this crap for a grievance because we are do 1st class Deadhead fares for this. I'd bet there are a lot of us who are in this category since the contract was signed and our travel banks should reflect the true 1st class fares we previously had.

JAL SHELL FLAT NEO
Image4The JAL Shell Flat Neo Seat has been created based on the design of JAL Shell Flat Seat - JAL's award-winning seat in business class. The new seat for JAL Executive Class Seasons has been improved in a number of ways to maximize business class passengers’ comfort and relaxation.
Compared to the JAL Shell Flat Seat, the JAL Shell Flat Neo Seat reclines further to an angle of 171 degrees and its seat pitch and width have both been increased.
Image5The upholstery of the seat, which now includes a slip-proof cover, has been enhanced to ensure that passengers can relax to the full and enjoy the most refreshing of sleeps. The controls of the seat have been refined to enable passengers to find the perfect position in which to relax.
A 15.4 inch personal TV screen has been incorporated into the JAL Shell Flat Neo Seat providing passengers with one of the world’s largest screens available in international business class.
Image6By expanding the center console of the seat, stowage areas have been increased, freeing up even more space for the passenger. Three handy locations for spectacles, slippers and a water bottle have been incorporated into the new design and the magazine rack has been enlarged.
A new feature of JAL Executive Class Season and a world first will be the “Sky Gallery”. One of the walls of the business class cabin will feature a photographic exhibition that will be regularly changed over the year. The first exhibit, in collaboration with Fuji Film, will be a series of photographs of forests in Japan entitled ‘Forest Forever’. The gallery will be located directly opposite a self-service bar counter, where passengers can enjoy snacks and beverages at anytime, whilst admiring the photographs.

Here's an excerpt from an airline critique:

"The business class seats installed on this route were the biggest disappointment of the whole experience. While the plane is new, the seats are what Japan Airlines calls “Shell Flat Neo,” an older angle-flat seat that was phased out on the carrier’s long-haul routes aboard 777s in favor of the newer, more private and luxurious “Sky Suite” seats. I’ve flown on Sky Suite-equipped planes that fly LAX-NRT, and they’re leaps and bounds more comfortable and private than this 787’s setup."

Read more: http://thepointsguy.com/2015/09/jal-...#ixzz4GMuY1MNc

We need to protect the contract we have and document this stuff or they'll they'll have a precedent set...

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Old 08-05-2016, 09:22 AM
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QYB. 4 degrees isn't even noticeable.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by LAXative View Post
QYB. 4 degrees isn't even noticeable.
Take the your bed at home and tilt it down 9 degrees from 180 and tell me how good your sleep was... please!
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:43 AM
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I'll hop over the troll and ignore as always........

Did you call anyone pre-trip to see if this could be addressed or did you find out when you used the seat?

This is definitely worth putting on the front burner because this whole DH class of service in the contract is AFU. There is a finite list of airlines we use for international/(intercontinental) deadheads. Identifying which one's meet our criteria doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. Then, maybe when the trips are scrubbed by the SIG this type of shortfall could be averted before the trips are even published.
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I'll hop over the troll and ignore as always........

Did you call anyone pre-trip to see if this could be addressed or did you find out when you used the seat?

This is definitely worth putting on the front burner because this whole DH class of service in the contract is AFU. There is a finite list of airlines we use for international/(intercontinental) deadheads. Identifying which one's meet our criteria doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. Then, maybe when the trips are scrubbed by the SIG this type of shortfall could be averted before the trips are even published.
Nope XTRA pairing; called to fly off reserve DH KIX
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Flaps50 View Post
Nope XTRA pairing; called to fly off reserve DH KIX
What was the city pair for the flight? The other thing I meant to ask was did the fight have first class or was business the best thing available on that particular flight.

I had an inter-Asia DH from KIX-SIN (so ~6-ish hour flight) a few months ago. Singapore airlines (which I usually expect top notch service from) was using a tired old A330 in two-class configuration. The BC seats were the old flat angled 170 degree set-up (2-2-2) where you either climb over the person in the aisle when you have a window seat or get climbed over.

Of course the contract isn't black and white on this. Where do we draw the line. Flat-bed seat is now the standard for higher class of service. If I'm on a 3 hour flight inter-Asia flight, I'm authorized a "higher class of service". However, chances are no airline (no matter how great they are) is going to put a short-haul aircraft equipped with flat-bed seats on that route. Most likely there will be basic reclining seats in a first/coach configuration. On a 3-4 hour flight, most people are going to be ok with a few drinks, dinner and a movie while sitting in a nice FC seat. Even if it did lay flat, most people aren't going to bother (although having the option is always nice).

So, again, where is that line in actual practice? If it's an all-nighter like my KIX-SIN flight or a long enough flight that a nap might be likely, do we start putting our foot down for the flat-bed? Does that market even have the flat-bed option? How does that get tracked and enforced and what can we point to in the contract to delineate the criteria? I want to be reasonable/realistic about this, because there are is a lot of variation in aircraft configuration in the medium-haul market worldwide.

I guess the easy solution is always pick a flat-bed aircraft if it's available in that market (not just on the flight). Which means pairing builders need to do more than just pick the DH flight they want and give us whatever might be available on that particular flight. Somehow I don't see the company pairing builders spending a lot of brain cells on that unless we force them to.

Last edited by Adlerdriver; 08-05-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:32 AM
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I think we draw the line on the contract language, the company does. 170 degrees is not a lie flat seat. If theybook me into the wrong class my bank will be credited with the higher class.
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Old 08-05-2016, 11:56 AM
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Flaps,

File the grievance. If you were put on a flight that didn't meet the contract, there is no need to let it keep happening in order the collect data. Once is once to many.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG View Post
I think we draw the line on the contract language, the company does. 170 degrees is not a lie flat seat.
I'm on board with all that. But my question is: if you're deadheading from NRT-HKG which is about a 4 hour flight, are you going to expect a flat bed seat?
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I'm on board with all that. But my question is: if you're deadheading from NRT-HKG which is about a 4 hour flight, are you going to expect a flat bed seat?
Doesn't the contract just call for a business class seat for international DHs?
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