Flaps50

My Deadhead was an LAX-KIX 12:10 Block on JAL with a 171 degree angled seat. Not one of us got any sleep as we were sliding down the seat the entire time we had it flat... this is totally unsat in my book. I would have deviated and taken Delta through NRT, but the fare on the leg was $2031 which is wholly inadequate to deviate INTL with. I believe my bank should have been credited with a 1st class fare on another carrier which would have allowed us to deviate. We had a 70hr layover scheduled in KIX so they could have easily put us on another airline.

Adlerdriver

That's a surprisingly low fare for JAL. They are usually through the roof.

Unfortunately, your seat was legal under the new contract as well as the old one. The block time and non-discounted ticket puts you in business class. It appears that was the best seat available on the flight you took and there has never been any requirement for the company to search out flights with better options. They pick and you get what's on that flight. There is nothing in either version of the CBA to support your view that your bank should be credited with a higher ticket price. Unfortunately, the wording of the new contract does not REQUIRE you to be in a flat-bed seat. It says that satisfies the higher class of service, so if they get there before they get to first class, they can stop. It doesn't say they have to get there if they get to the class of service specified by the old contract language still present.

I agree your situation was total BS. Because..... we were sold this POS under that false pretense that we would be getting a flat-bed seat on long haul DHs in exchange for some wiggle room on actual class of service. Maybe we can grieve this and win, but I won't hold my breath.

Flaps50

The union was asked about this very interpretation of the Deadhead change in the CBA, and we were sold the goods that the long flights would have a lie flat seat with 175 degrees or better if not in true 1st Class. Why have that in there at all if it means nothing? We're getting hosed IMO. I know there's a current grievance underway so we'll see what becomes of that, but there has to have been agreements made during bargaining that backs up the true meaning of the CBA language that seams to be incredibly hard to comprehend at this point.

FDXLAG

You should have been booked in First.

If a deadhead has 10 or more scheduled block hours, the travel shall be booked in the following order based upon avail-ability on the scheduled flight:
(a) First Class (discounted);
(b) Business Class (full fare or discounted);
(C) First Class (full fare)

Your bank should have been credited for first:

Regardless of the class of service actually ticketed, a pilot’s deviation bank shall be credited with the Baseline Fare for the highest class of service which authorized on the scheduled deadhead flight, and which exists on that flight.

This has nothing to do with Flat Bed seats (or the new contract) since you did not have a flat bed seat. File a discrepancy on the expense report and request the first class bank. If you don't get it grieve it.

Again this is the old contract, if you didn't have a 175 degree flat bed seat nothing changed. The language is only as good as we force the union to force the company to follow.

Flaps50

The problem apparently is that that flight only had Business and Coach as options. Total BS as there could have been other flight options for us as we had a long layover scheduled after the DH.

Adlerdriver

Unfortunately, no. Unless something has changed, we don't get discounted tickets on JAL, Cathay and quite a few other foreign carriers.

So full-fare business was the "authorized" ticket on this flight. Add to that First Class wasn't even available on this aircraft (so it didn't exist on this flight) and there is no way anyone is going to credit Flaps travel bank with anything more than what he got.

We were told the new contract was going to result in flat-bed seats on deadheads if we stopped specifying a particular class of service and made flat-bed the standard. That's not happening. It would be great if we could successfully grieve this, unfortunately the contract language doesn't really help us support our case (as usual).

machz990

The contract is written with a hierarchical structure , main paragraph then sub paragraphs. Our negotiating committee said all the old language on first class and banks was preserved and we would still get the higher bank if warranted. Not the case at all. The new language of, "a lie-flat seat satisfies the higher class of service" was inserted into the new CBA above the old language so therefore the old language is subordinate to the new language due to the hierarchy. When a lie-flat seat is available the company stops reading. All language below that statement becomes N/A. Example: The deadhead from Sydney back to Memphis was always in full first with a fare around $8500. It's now in business with a fare around $3200. I used to deviate and go on Delta for $5000 and save about $3500. Can't do that now with the lower accepted fare. You're basically stuck.

Tuck

Guys - the only changes are business on intl over 2.5 hrs and lie flat business satisfied first class if required. That's it.

I DH on Air France in 2006 LAX-CDG 11 hr flight on a angled business when first was avail. Why? Because no discounted first. We have very very few contracts with non US airlines for first class - just business. It's been that way for at least the past 5 years. No first on CX - no why? Haven't had that contract for about 5 years - company did that on purpose. We have the disc on AA , UAL and DL and that's about it. So if u r flying JAL without a discounted first contract u will be in business. Guess where u would have been in 2006 or 2013? The same.

Tuck

Uh no - we were never told that. I never read that or saw it on any written briefs or any q and a. You may have thought that but we were never told that.

Flaps50

Sorry to tell you, but they are deadheading us way differently now than they were last year or 5 years ago for sure. The new contract language is giving them a much larger avenue to save bank money. That's not the way it was told to me during a road show specifically by a negotiation team member...