"What's going on up there when the lone pilot refuses to conduct a visual approach?"

With all due respect, the "system" is supposed to work for all of us. New or not. I think ATC tweaks the system to move the most metal and it works, most of the time, for locals who do a lot. If it really messes you up that bad when a non-local doesn't play the game then, and it's my personal opinion only, you guys are pushing too hard.

Why won't we say we see other aircraft for the visual? Unless you were there, you can't possibly imagine how hard it can be to spot another aircraft or pick out a runway, especially if you haven't been there before. Now, you want us to start telling you if we aren't local on initial call? If you can get that on the ATIS then I'll do it....

We were going into DEN, at night, in and out of snow squalls, a month ago. United's were taking the visual on long finals to the south but we were coming in from the west, in and out of IMC. The airport itself was clear and a million. The controller vectored us to a close in downwind/base and wanted us to call it. We said unable on the visual based on what we had been flying through, not being that familar, and not being completely certain of seeing the proper runway. It's one thing when you are doing a long final, seeing the runway for a visual, and other if you are on a close in downwind. The controller was not pleased that we wouldn't take the visual and I know we messed up his plan, but it just wasn't safe.

 

"I've flown with enough guys that are afraid of the visual because they don't understand it"

What's to not understand?

 

Har! You might be able to sequence and space yourself to the airport, but I'd wager that you wouldn't be able to do much for all of the other folks behind, above and to your left spaced appropriately for their approach sequence!

I certainly can't speak for all Controllers on this one, but will tell you a few things about this situation from my perspective:

1) I do appreciate it when you tell me that you have the "field in sight", and generally get the impression that you are ready, willing and able to turn base now for the Visual Approach.

2) However, there are times when I simply am not ready to clear you yet. This might be due to the traffic that you are following; other traffic that is following you; coordination that is not yet completed with an adjacent sector; or some VFR yahoo flying across the final and not talking to ATC.

3) Sometimes it's just easier for me to say "Roger" in response to your offer to accept the approach clearance. Sometimes I just don't have time to provide you with a detailed explanation relating to the current situation. Sometimes it just takes a second or two for me to tell the Controller next to me that "I'm turning in next with that Citation Jet for the visual..." If I don't give you the approach clearance right when you call the field in sight, something is happening which prevents me from comfortably turning you loose at that particular moment.

4) One of my favorite techniques is "closing the gap". Say you are ten miles behind the traffic that you are following. I'll hold out on the approach clearance and ask you to "keep your speed up for sequence". When the spacing has tightened to 4-5 miles, I'll reduce your speed and then clear you for the approach. (As other posters have commented, ATC is providing the separation with speed and spacing, however you are still helping by accepting the Visual Approach Clearance.

Thanks for the comments!

MEM_ATC

 

Hey de727ups,

I understand that you think we are "pushing too hard" at times, and I'd even agree with you to some extent. It's a fine line that we ride each and every day. Many pilots are chipping away at us about the 35 mile final. Some are upset because Memphis Center told them to go fast, while others are upset because the last sector slowed them for in-trail spacing.

During the middle of the arrival rush at MEM, I must push hard to run a tight final. If I don't, 1) the Controller to my left is going to be upset because I affected his sequence, 2) the Controller to my right is going to be upset because he has to slow all of his aircraft to match my speed and spacing sequence, 3) the Controller at Memphis Center is going to be upset because my Supervisor has placed a "static restriction" of 250 knots on all aircraft crossing my boundary, 4) the Traffic Management dude at Memphis Center starts getting phone calls from the Command Center... and the ripple effect just goes on and on.

If I dig my heals in and tell the Supervisor that I want all of my traffic reduced and spaced in a real friendly manner, he'll just laugh and tell me to suck it up. If I refuse to take the handoff or start slowing everyone down to "be safe", FAA Management says that I am using "malicious compliance" to enforce the rules of separation. If I run a real loose final so that I don't jam any of you guys in there to hard and fast, someone might say that I'm running a "job action".

You know, I could probably put that request on the ATIS... once, then receive some good old fashioned FAA discipline.

There are many things that pilots and controllers do/say that are not "by the book". Some of these actions provide a very clear picture of the situation, and in my opinion, are quite helpful.

Just last month I dumped a CRJ down to 3,000 and turned him towards a long and wide base entry for RWY 36R at MEM. The pilot promptly told me that he had not been to MEM in two years, and that he would appreciate a turn to the final. That little bit of information was very helpful and appreciated by me. I slowed the guy a little earlier... turned him to join the localizer... notified the tower so that they could keep an eye on him. The situation might have been different had I worked him as a local pilot familiar with the operation.

If the ATIS is advertising Visual Approaches, it would be helpful if you would work to make that happen for us. If you don't want the visual approach, just let us know. If you are unable to execute the visual approach for any reason, just let us know. If the weather has changed to where visual approaches are not advisable... JUST LET US KNOW.

I have no idea what you see through the window of your cockpit, and I depend on you to keep me informed of the weather out there. We can make it happen, but we'll need to work together.

MEM_ATC

 

"FAA Management says that I am using "malicious compliance"...

HAHA. I like that one. I'm gonna use that.

As to the rest, I'm hearing that you're under a lot of pressure to move airplanes. The pilots job is to fly the airplane safely. That means different things to different people but being pressured into a visual because ATC needs to move airplanes just isn't on my priority list. I guess what we can all start doing is anytime there is the slightest doubt, we can all start saying "unable the visual" everytime we check in.

I used to work at LA Tracon and cut the arrival ATIS, so I had to laugh at your ATIS comment. You're right about that.