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Old 10-27-2008 | 08:26 PM
  #11  
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Default New York Times Article

I found the article !!

Up, Up and ... Never Mind

By MATTHEW L. WALD
Published: April 26, 2007


pilots-private pilots - New York Times

SkyHigh
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Old 10-27-2008 | 10:38 PM
  #12  
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I will say costs definitly plays a major part, especially for young people. Back in '79 when I learned to fly, a C-150 was renting for $19.?? an hour wet and a 172 was around $25 an hour wet. I was a teenager making $7.60 an hour as a stockboy in the grocery store and paid for my PPL and instrument in cash. That's a bit over two hours work for an hour of flight time...plus instructor. How many hours of work would a young person have to do in a job like that to get an hour flight time now?

A vehicle also takes up much more income these days and that is necessary for anyone. That same $7.60 an hour I made also paid for my vehicle, gas and insurance. Wouldn't happen now.

Back in my CFI days there were those who would inquire about flying lessons and a small percentage were never seen again. I'm sure that percentage is much, much higher these days when they find out the minimums required for a regular license and see a plane goes for a bit under $100 an hour. They can spend a grand for a good mountain bike and get their rocks off for years doing crazy crap or get a motocross bike and do loops with that and be out the backdoor doing it.
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Old 10-28-2008 | 04:15 AM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by BTDT
I will say costs definitly plays a major part, especially for young people. Back in '79 when I learned to fly, a C-150 was renting for $19.?? an hour wet and a 172 was around $25 an hour wet. I was a teenager making $7.60 an hour as a stockboy in the grocery store and paid for my PPL and instrument in cash. That's a bit over two hours work for an hour of flight time...plus instructor. How many hours of work would a young person have to do in a job like that to get an hour flight time now?

A vehicle also takes up much more income these days and that is necessary for anyone. That same $7.60 an hour I made also paid for my vehicle, gas and insurance. Wouldn't happen now.

Back in my CFI days there were those who would inquire about flying lessons and a small percentage were never seen again. I'm sure that percentage is much, much higher these days when they find out the minimums required for a regular license and see a plane goes for a bit under $100 an hour. They can spend a grand for a good mountain bike and get their rocks off for years doing crazy crap or get a motocross bike and do loops with that and be out the backdoor doing it.
Aspiring to be a professional aviator, whether you actually do so or not is among the most sensible reasons to expend the effort and money required to get advanced training. But people are able to ascertain that a professional pilot career is not what it once was and salaries are not what they once were. They see the job as a questionable endeavor and spending five figures on flight training in the face of a decay in salary and working conditions for professionals aviators just doesn't make sense.

However, it is still a valuable resume credential to have pilot certificates listed whether you plan to use the certificates or not. Pilot certificates are a reliable way to open doors with employers and establish a better place on the list of applicants for a variety of high paying jobs. It shows the candidate has focus, drive, skill, determination, ability to stay the course and a desire to use high level skills in the service of others. Many professions use milestones as such evidence. Politicians get law degrees, doctors get chemistry degrees, and engineers often get business degrees in addition to other training. All these jobs could go forth without the extra training but they do because it shows mettle and ability.

What's missing in GA to a large extent now is a purely recreational component that once had the money to spend on it but now has trouble with the numbers. I do not lament the loss of this group very much, because they are thrill seekers and there is nothing wrong with that but there are cheaper ways to do it. But I do lament the loss of the traditional proving ground that general aviation historically provides. If you say you have a pilot's license it instantly communicates you have moxy, skill, confidence, drive, and focus, and that you intend to do a better job.
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Old 10-28-2008 | 06:01 AM
  #14  
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Default Snow Heads

Most of the GA component at my airport is made up of crabby snow heads. I went to one EAA meeting and it was like liver and onions night at the rest home. It was nothing but a bunch of argumentative old timers who only wanted to argue and report others to the FAA. Most of them do not really fly. They all have a kit plane buried in the garage in various forms of completion. A favorite pastime is to try and corner each other and spend a half an hour telling you why their pile of tubes is better than your flying certified plane.

The airport is already a lonely place. I wonder what the future will be like. Lots of hangar space I suppose.

SkyHigh
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Old 10-28-2008 | 06:15 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Most of the GA component at my airport is made up of crabby snow heads. I went to one EAA meeting and it was like liver and onions night at the rest home. It was nothing but a bunch of argumentative old timers who only wanted to argue and report others to the FAA. Most of them do not really fly. They all have a kit plane buried in the garage in various forms of completion. A favorite pastime is to try and corner each other and spend a half an hour telling you why their pile of tubes is better than your flying certified plane.
That's funny!
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Old 10-28-2008 | 06:32 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Most of the GA component at my airport is made up of crabby snow heads. I went to one EAA meeting and it was like liver and onions night at the rest home. It was nothing but a bunch of argumentative old timers who only wanted to argue and report others to the FAA. Most of them do not really fly. They all have a kit plane buried in the garage in various forms of completion. A favorite pastime is to try and corner each other and spend a half an hour telling you why their pile of tubes is better than your flying certified plane.
I think I've met those guys
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Old 10-28-2008 | 06:37 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Cubdriver
Aspiring to be a professional aviator, whether you actually do so or not is among the most sensible reasons to expend the effort and money required to get advanced training. But people are able to ascertain that a professional pilot career is not what it once was and salaries are not what they once were. They see the job as a questionable endeavor and spending five figures on flight training in the face of a decay in salary and working conditions for professionals aviators just doesn't make sense.

However, it is still a valuable resume credential to have pilot certificates listed whether you plan to use the certificates or not. Pilot certificates are a reliable way to open doors with employers and establish a better place on the list of applicants for a variety of high paying jobs. It shows the candidate has focus, drive, skill, determination, ability to stay the course and a desire to use high level skills in the service of others. Many professions use milestones as such evidence. Politicians get law degrees, doctors get chemistry degrees, and engineers often get business degrees in addition to other training. All these jobs could go forth without the extra training but they do because it shows mettle and ability.


What's missing in GA to a large extent now is a purely recreational component that once had the money to spend on it but now has trouble with the numbers. I do not lament the loss of this group very much, because they are thrill seekers and there is nothing wrong with that but there are cheaper ways to do it. But I do lament the loss of the traditional proving ground that general aviation historically provides. If you say you have a pilot's license it instantly communicates you have moxy, skill, confidence, drive, and focus, and that you intend to do a better job.

I have to disagree. Most people outside aviation have no idea about what it takes to become a pilot. I read numerous threads about people with REAL degrees trying to leave the business of commercial flying. They have a really though time convincing their potential employees that they are out the business for good. After all, why would anyone leave such "prestigious and well paid job" to be come a CPA?(sarcasm) Most people think that flying planes is just operating machinery, they don't know that holding a yoke is probably the easiest thing that we do.
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Old 10-28-2008 | 06:47 AM
  #18  
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Default Professional Pilot

Originally Posted by Rascal
I have to disagree. Most people outside aviation have no idea about what it takes to become a pilot. I read numerous threads about people with REAL degrees trying to leave the business of commercial flying. They have a really though time convincing their potential employees that they are out the business for good. After all, why would anyone leave such "prestigious and well paid job" to be come a CPA?(sarcasm) Most people think that flying planes is just operating machinery, they don't know that holding a yoke is probably the easiest thing that we do.
I have to agree that it is very difficult to sell yourself to an employer who is outside of aviation as a commercial pilot. Pilot job skills have no value to the outside world. However if you are a CPA who also holds a private pilots license I think it helps.

My brother is a construction manager who also holds a private pilots license and he is able to gain appreciation from the rich business owners that he comes into contact with that also own planes.


SkyHigh
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Old 10-28-2008 | 07:12 AM
  #19  
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Pilot job skills have no value to the outside world.
We've had this discussion before but I disagree:
S - Situational Awareness
A - Assertiveness
D - Decision Making
C - Communication
L - Leadership
A - Adapability/Flexability
M - Mission (or Job) Analysis

All great qualities that pilot's have to practice everytime they fly and that any employer would appreciate.

USMCFLYR
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Old 10-28-2008 | 08:11 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR
We've had this discussion before but I disagree:
S - Situational Awareness
A - Assertiveness
D - Decision Making
C - Communication
L - Leadership
A - Adapability/Flexability
M - Mission (or Job) Analysis

All great qualities that pilot's have to practice everytime they fly and that any employer would appreciate.

USMCFLYR
The point is that NO ONE cares. Like I said before, to most people, pilots simply "drive" airplanes and "SADCLAM" never comes to mind.
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